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Scorpion Power ProModeler
HelicopterOff Topics › Just Wondering about ######## NOT REGISTERING #########
12-15-2015 08:47 PM  20 months agoPost 61
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

the same should be done with drone equipment, like FPV systems and GPS guidance systems.
No. Hell, no.

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12-15-2015 09:30 PM  20 months agoPost 62
RM3

Elite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

isnt that what your asking? to make a clear distinction between traditional modelers and "Drones"....

its the guidance system/GPS, and the FPV capability at the core of the problem is it not?

So make those that want those systems register them.... but leave the rest of us playing with our LOS toys alone.

as it stands now ALL of us flying anything bigger than a 250 class now have to register... I dont even own a GPS/FPV system.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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12-15-2015 09:39 PM  20 months agoPost 63
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Honestly. I don't fly FPV. I don't fly quads. So they could ban them and it would not affect me one bit.

That doesn't mean banning them is the right thing to do.

I'm a libertarian. Background checks and data logs for camera purchases is just getting too big government to contend with.

Like I said, wouldn't affect me one bit, but doesn't make that a good idea.

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12-15-2015 09:48 PM  20 months agoPost 64
HeimD

Veteran

the great southwest

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

you should know that anytime a dealer sells a firearm, they keep a record of who bought that firearm and the serial # of the firearm in question, not to mention the background check that must be run too... when was the last time you bought a firearm from a dealer and did not have to fill out documentation?
Sorry, you fail. You said ANY transaction with a firearm, not just those from a dealer (FFL holder). I can buy firearms all day long here with NO background check, paperwork or anything else via face-to-face transfers with another private party. I could do the exact same thing in Texas if I were a resident of that state.

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12-15-2015 11:09 PM  20 months agoPost 65
RM3

Elite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I can buy firearms all day long here with NO background check, paperwork or anything else via face-to-face transfers with another private party.
where did I say "ANY" transaction with a firearm?... I made it clear when purchase thru a dealer about firearms and implying the sale thru a dealer about drones...

and that is exactly the reason we have problems, (like San Bern BTW...)

no paper trail.

the one that gets in trouble is the one who followed the law...not the one who used the device to break it.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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12-15-2015 11:19 PM  20 months agoPost 66
RM3

Elite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

So whats the damn answer besides the usual BS inter arguments we are having such as who said what here?

any suggestions besides barking at each other and your local representatives?

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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12-15-2015 11:50 PM  20 months agoPost 67
TheMainShaft

Heliman

Southlake, TX - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

FAA Drone Registration - Yes there are answers - simple ones

Yes, there are answers. The FAA should do it's job. Post agents at every airport where a drone near miss has occurred. Talk to people in the area when something happens. In short, do some good old fashion detective work. They want to spend 56 million for this registration web site. That money would be better spent on hiring a few new agents that would actually do some investigation. Once they have actually caught someone, there are plenty of existing laws under which to prosecute them. But is easier to make it someone else's burden, namely us, by implementing a plan that will not solve the problem.

Educate people. Launch a set of public service TV ads explaining the dangers of improper operation. So far the only ones they have informed of the problem is the existing body of LOS fliers who are not the problem anyways. Bottom line the FAA is not doing the job we are paying them to do.

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12-16-2015 03:35 AM  20 months agoPost 68
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

This is not PG. Watch with that in mind:

Watch at YouTube

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged

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12-16-2015 06:46 AM  20 months agoPost 69
Dingo07

Senior Heliman

Newport Coast, CA - USA

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Excerpt taken from 14 CFR Parts 1, 45, 47, 48, 91, and 375

Abbreviations you'll see...
CFR = Code of Federal Regulations
14 CFR = Title 14 CFR
IFR = Interim Final Rule
UAS = Unmanned Aircraft System
sUAS = Small Unmanned Aircraft System
NAS = National Airspace System

Definition of IFR:

Interim Final Rule - These interim rules are typically issued in conformity with statutory provisions allowing agencies to publish a final rule that becomes effective soon after publication, without going through the proposed rule stage. The "good cause" exception in the Administrative Procedure Act allows agencies to bypass public notice and comment on a rule when it would be impracticable, unnecessary, or contrary to the public interest. This process typically allows for public comment after the rule is published so that the agency still has an opportunity to consider public input and revise the rule accordingly.

2015 Regulation Identifier Number (RIN) 2120-AK82
Registration and Marking Requirements for Small Unmanned Aircraft
2015 1213 IFR

Page 21:
For purposes of the statutory provisions in part A (Air Commerce and Safety) of subtitle VII (Aviation Programs) of title 49 of the United States Code (49 U.S.C.), title 49 defines “aircraft” as “any contrivance invented, used, or designed to navigate or fly in the air.” 49 U.S.C. 40102(a)(6). Since a small unmanned aircraft is a contrivance that is invented, used, and designed to fly in the air, a small unmanned aircraft is an aircraft under title 49.

Page 22:
In Public Law 112-95, Congress confirmed that unmanned aircraft, including those used for recreation or hobby purposes, are aircraft consistent with the statutory definition set forth in 49 U.S.C. 40102(a)(6). See Public Law 112-95 sections 331(8) and 336 (defining an unmanned aircraft as “an aircraft that is operated without the possibility of direct human intervention from within or on the aircraft” and a model aircraft as “an unmanned aircraft that is capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere, flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft, and flown for hobby or recreational purposes.”); see also Administrator v. Pirker, NTSB Order No. EA-5730 at 12 (Nov. 17, 2014) (affirming that the statutory definition of aircraft is clear and unambiguous and “includes any aircraft, manned or unmanned, large or small.”).

Page 24:
At a minimum, under part 47, applicants for a Certificate of Aircraft Registration must provide evidence of ownership, an application for registration, which includes certification as to eligibility for registration, and a registration fee. Evidence of ownership may include, but is not limited to, a traditional bill of sale, a contract of conditional sale, a lease with purchase option, or an heir-at-law affidavit. Many applicants are required to provide additional documentation for aircraft imported from a foreign country, built from a kit, or that qualify as amateur built aircraft. Additional documentation may include a certification from the builder as to the type of aircraft and a complete description, to include information such as make, model, serial number, engine manufacturer, type of engine, number of engines, maximum takeoff weight, and number of seats. An applicant who applies as a limited liability corporation, a trustee, a non-citizen corporation, or submits documentation signed by “authorized signers,” must submit additional documentation to support registration. For amateur built aircraft, the owner or builder designates the aircraft model name and serial number. An applicant pertaining to an imported aircraft must provide evidence showing the aircraft has been removed from a foreign registry.

Page 25:
The certificate of registration must be carried in the aircraft and must be made available for inspection upon request. Upon registration, an aircraft is also eligible to apply for an airworthiness certificate for operational purposes. When applying for registration of an aircraft that is already on the U.S. civil registry, and has a valid airworthiness certificate, an owner may use the second (carbon) copy of the application as temporary operating authority for up to 90 days pending receipt of the “hard card” certificate. For aircraft not already on the U.S. civil registry, there is no temporary operating authority.
An aircraft registration must be renewed every three years by either submitting a renewal application or using an online renewal process, and paying the renewal fee. The certificate of registration is generally valid until the owner’s address changes, the aircraft is sold or destroyed, it has expired under the three-year renewal period, the owner’s eligibility status changes, or the owner registers the aircraft in a foreign country.

Page 26:
Part 45: Under part 45 of Title 14 CFR, aircraft must display the unique registration number that corresponds with the number on the registration certificate. Part 45 prescribes the requirements for identification of U.S. registered aircraft and the display of the registration number. The number must generally be: (1) painted on the aircraft or affixed to the aircraft by some other permanent means; (2) have no ornamentation; (3) contrast in color with the background; and (4) be legible. See 14 CFR 45.21(c).

Page 46:
4. Model Aircraft
This rulemaking includes the definition of the term “model aircraft” as it appears in section 336 of Public Law 112-95. Thus, in this IFR, “model aircraft” means an unmanned aircraft that is (1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere; (2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and (3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes.

Page 49:
All model aircraft should be excluded from the requirement of registration: A large number of commenters recommended an exemption from the registration requirement for model aircraft. These commenters included many individual members of the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA), as well as other members of the recreational/hobby community. Among the reasons given by commenters for this position were the facts that traditional model aircraft have a long history of safe operations and that the FAA is not authorized to regulate model aircraft. The Aerospace Industries Association said the exemption of “hobby platforms” from registration would enhance the viability of the registration process by allowing the focus of the registry to remain on “commercial use platforms.”
With respect to which aircraft would qualify as “model aircraft” for the purposes of an exemption from the registration requirement, some commenters said that any model aircraft flown recreationally should be exempt. One individual commenter asserted that other countries,

Page 50:
such as Australia, Canada and the United Kingdom have made this distinction between recreational and commercial use and not required registration of recreational use aircraft. The Minnesota Department of Transportation also stated that it has not required UAS operated solely for recreational use to register. Many other commenters specifically stated that any model aircraft operated within the safety programming of the AMA should be considered “model aircraft” and not “UAS” and therefore exempt from the registration requirement. A large number of those commenters asserted that the AMA has “an impeccable 80-year track record of operating safely,” and that requiring AMA members to register their aircraft will have no impact on that safety record. Several commenters recommended that the FAA require model aircraft operators to become AMA members. Some other commenters said that any model aircraft that meets the definition of model aircraft contained in the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 should be exempt from the registration requirement.

A number of individual commenters highlighted the distinction between traditional model aircraft that are home built or assembled from kits (which they characterized as separate from UAS) and Ready to Fly (RTF) aircraft that do not require assembly (which they characterized as UAS). These commenters claimed that traditional model aircraft do not pose a safety risk to the NAS because they are flown strictly within the operator’s visual line of sight, have no autonomous control, and have fairly limited ranges. Some commenters also pointed out that model aircraft that are operated within the auspices of the AMA can only be flown at AMA-sanctioned fields and must already display the owner’s AMA member ID. Commenters contrasted these models with ready-to-fly aircraft, which are easy to operate, capable of vertical take-off, payload carrying and flying autonomously and beyond visual line of sight, and are often equipped with other enhanced capabilities, such as cameras, GPS systems, and remote viewing

Page 51:
electronics. Commenters asserted that the problems that have prompted the FAA to require registration are due to the proliferation of these ready-to-fly aircraft that can be flown beyond visual line of sight. One commenter said “their ease of use, intuitive controls, and overall availability have created a perfect storm, wherein inexperienced flyers are flying in inappropriate and/or dangerous places.”

Some commenters recommended a blanket exemption for home-built model aircraft. One commenter explained that home-built models should be exempt from registration because individuals who build their own model aircraft “have the time, experience, personal investment and motivation to be aware of and observe safe modeling practices.” Another commenter asserted that exempting home- or scratch-built model aircraft “will allow experimenters, programmers, developers and beta testers to exercise their creativity without complicating or impeding the creative process with unnecessary restrictions.” Other commenters did not request a blanket exemption for home-built model aircraft but instead recommended exemptions based on performance capabilities, which would necessarily exclude traditional model aircraft. Those recommendations are discussed below.

IF you've read all above... then I commend you! Download the IFR from here and continue reading from page 51.

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12-16-2015 10:21 AM  20 months agoPost 70
EEngineer

Elite Veteran

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The AMA has just been rendered irrelevant...
Try entering a sanctioned event...LOL
But AMA has lumped us in with drones.
Wrong.....

The politicians that YOU voted for has caused this.

Since you politicians are so corrupt, "drones" and the dweeb AMA naysayers are easy targets.

To draw attention away from this pandemic political corruption, that has nothing to do with RC.

LOL
the AMA did everything they possibly could and I support them 100%.
Me, too.

When the AMA had to get involved with these "petty" unelected bureaucrats....to defend all of us....unfortunately, these socialist bureaucratic criminals saw a way to invoke a "tax" on all of us.

$5 now....$20 later(and then per aircraft).

The head of the FAA...Huerta...has no knowledge of anything....except for campaign donations....so he was appointed for his efforts.

And these propagandists have now laid the blame of all "EVIL" upon RC flyers...aren't they clever, yet once again.

And youse guys suckered for this..."hook, line and sinker".

Wake up.
the same should be done with drone equipment, like FPV systems and GPS guidance systems.
RM....don't you realize that ALL equipment is in jeopardy.

Fixed wing aircraft, too.

Are you suggesting that I have to jump thru such hoops to purchase a new radio system from JR?

Come on, dude.
This is not PG. Watch with that in mind:
I didn't bother...sorry.

Our country is not ruled by the decrees issued by unelected, petty bureaucrats.....unless people allow themselves to be so ruled.

Wise up.

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

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12-16-2015 02:57 PM  20 months agoPost 71
RappyTappy

rrProfessor

North Denver, Colorado

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Only people that will register are LOS fliers, because we keep them close to us, fly at sanctioned rc fields and its easy to spot who the operator is.

FPV fliers that go long distances where they shouldnt just for the thrill will not be registering, I think the thrill of being even more of a rogue and 'getting away with it' is just going to make doing stupid stuff more enticing.

If we the regular hobbyist cave in, its just going to get worse. Once the government sees they can get their hands in our pockets simply by using half baked fear tactics, its over.

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12-16-2015 03:16 PM  20 months agoPost 72
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Undocumented (un-registered) aliens, will they register their UAV ?
Lets see, unregistered workers have killed a lot people, hobby drones have not killed anyone, see the parody in this ?

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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12-16-2015 03:56 PM  20 months agoPost 73
HeimD

Veteran

the great southwest

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

"Quote = RM3"

where did I say "ANY" transaction with a firearm?... I made it clear when purchase thru a dealer about firearms and implying the sale thru a dealer about drones...
When you said the quote below on page 3. And, no you did not make it clear. I already quoted you on it. You incorrectly likened ANY sale (that includes a website, a shop, an individual, etc) to "just like they do with a firearm". Read it again. And, don't go back and edit your post, either.
"Quote = RM3"

require that ANY sale of a multirotor (to include those cheap ones at the mall) be done with registration by the buyer....just like they do with a firearm...

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12-16-2015 04:40 PM  20 months agoPost 74
dialarotor

Elite Veteran

Traverse City, Michigan

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Time for a "FLASH FLIGHT LINE on the WASHINGTON MALL

Helis, just like an IRCHA flightline with a few hundred pilots and demo and fill the air constantly while wearing "We're Not Criminals" T-shirts. Everyone walk out at exact time fire up all at once, a great big Spektrum/Futaba transmitter 2.4ghz test to the max. Hit the air and put on a show with drones hovering taking the videos. Use the hot young pilots and the senior citizens in our ranks so the arrests look absolutely stupid. "Helicopter Flying Maters". Plankers could take one side while we take the other, float planes flying on the reflecting pool. Heli smack over the water.

IN YOUR FACE FAA.

RapRexSynLog Pilot

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12-16-2015 05:17 PM  20 months agoPost 75
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Guys. Acting the fool while others are trying to advocate will backfire.

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12-16-2015 05:23 PM  20 months agoPost 76
salrica

Senior Heliman

Raleigh,NC

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

What about the business that are selling this "drones"?
They are everywhere, where ever you go you see them in display.
Are they making the customer aware that they need to register the operator?
I don't want to see this grandpa buying a toy for his boy and get fined not knowing the rules?, It's a toy! He will say.

I know that those that are selling this toys don't know about the registration also.
And if they know (the owner, not the seller), they will never let the customer know, no good for busines$.

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12-16-2015 05:45 PM  20 months agoPost 77
EastCoastFlyer

Heliman

Rochester, NY - United States

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Educate people. Launch a set of public service TV ads explaining the dangers of improper operation
I agree with this completely. Half of this problem is from people not understanding what the boundaries for flying safely are. The idiots who fly near or even over airports just don't know the safety problems that can arise from this.

Blade 180cfx, Warp 360, Goblin 700

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12-16-2015 08:40 PM  20 months agoPost 78
elmobad

Senior Heliman

chicago IL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Please, acts of protest that evolve using our hobby or the "D" word in dangerous maner is beyond FOULISH and untimely damaging to our cause.

To allow the government it interfere in the people's affairs in any way, like banning GPS, FPV or kites on strings, is more opening the door to our house. We can't let the blood suckling government in our house/lives at all. THEY WON'T LEAVE.

Yes we need the AMA on our side and use then as our advocate, but we also need to do our due dillagance, and voice our words, minds, and power as people.

I have said in the past and others said recently.

WAKE UP

This has little to do with our safety or RC or Drones.

100% about control.... control..... control.....

STOP THE MADDNESS

I will never comply, I will display my discussion to not comply and the reasons for it.

GOT FBL?

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12-16-2015 09:34 PM  20 months agoPost 79
wrongler

rrProfessor

Brewerton, New York

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I will never comply, I will display my discussion to not comply and the reasons for it.
I seem to be feeling the same way. When is enough, enough!
Careful, I'm getting old and cranky!

Bill Whittaker

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12-16-2015 10:24 PM  20 months agoPost 80
helicoop

Senior Heliman

North West Ohio

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so the clubs will have to require you to register. the land owners will start dropping leases for fear of being sued or held responsible

RC- a life style not a hobby!

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