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HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Roban Bell429 build and help appreciated
11-16-2015 07:05 PM  24 months agoPost 1
stemster

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kilmarnock

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Hi all,

Im back to RC helis after probably 10 years out of the hobby. After being used to nitro raptors and Vario scale gassers, the new electric helis have completely shocked me. Wow.

So, thanks to Quick UK I got a good deal for our charity with this Roban Bell 429.

The build looks easy but Im going to need help confirming the electrics.

Id appreciate any help out there.

First question I have after reading lots of posts on this, is what motor, esc, bec and FBS do you really need for one of these? It seems thst there are many different opinions out there.

Thanks all

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11-16-2015 09:58 PM  24 months agoPost 2
stemster

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kilmarnock

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Roban Bell 429 with photos

Hi all,
Im back to RC helis after probably 10 years out of the hobby. After being used to nitro raptors and Vario scale gassers, the new electric helis have completely shocked me. Wow.
So, thanks to Quick UK I got a good deal for our charity with this Roban Bell 429.
The build looks easy but Im going to need help confirming the electrics.
Id appreciate any help out there.
First question I have after reading lots of posts on this, is what motor, esc, bec and FBS do you really need for one of these? It seems thst there are many different opinions out there.

Here are some photos of what yoy get for your money
Thanks all

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11-17-2015 03:16 AM  24 months agoPost 3
Dingo07

rrApprentice

Newport Coast, CA -​USA

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Really nice! I wonder if they sell just the static turbine part that's already in the fuselage - they look lice and I could use them on my project!

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11-17-2015 11:46 AM  24 months agoPost 4
Thumper217

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Slidell, LA - USA

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Stemster,

That's a nice looking heli, right out of the box. I do not have one but have seen a few up close and fly. I know there are a few guys on here that have built this model and maybe they will check in and give you specific info about their set ups.

You are gong to need to figure out what head speed you want to run, the gear ratio and the battery set up in order to determine what motor/esc combo you are going to want to run. I have always had good luck with Castle Creations ESCs and BECs and like the data logging capabilities. I would imagine that you will be looking in the 80 to 120 amp range.

In regards to FBS there are a lot of good choices out there. One thing you might consider is if there are people using a particular brand that are close to you and can help you with the initial set up you might want to go with that because sometimes it can be pretty confusing to try and explain the set up. I use Skookum but there is also V-bar, Helicommand, Beast-x, and numerous others that will work.

Welcome back and I look forward to watching your progress on this build.

Andrew

Thumper

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11-17-2015 01:23 PM  24 months agoPost 5
stemster

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kilmarnock

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Thankyou Andrew. Great stuff. Ill have a go of calculating head speed etc. A 750mx align motor is recomended bur ive seen posts where people say that is over kill. A few recomend turnigy sk3 530kvs as options. Also the BEC vs OPTO is a bit confusing. Im looking at beast x ar7200 as FBS.

Steepelectic learning curve. Lol

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11-18-2015 09:06 AM  24 months agoPost 6
Andy01

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Brisbane, Australia

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You don't need a powerful motor for this, but you will probably need a slow motor. My guess is that you could get lighter and possibly better/cheaper motors with sufficient power than a 750MX, which is a performance 3D motor.

Good rules of thumb;

Power - work on 50-60W per pound of flying weight (50 for 2 blade, and closer to 60 for 4 blade)

RPM = kV x (3.7V x # of cells) x 0.9 (efficiency) x pinion teeth / main gear teeth. This will give you the headspeed at 100% throttle towards the end of the flight.

With Castle ESCs, I would think that a 80HV would be plenty as this heli is likely to fly gentle circuits on about 25A. Aim to govern between 90-95% of the RPM calculated above. Much lower than this is likely to result in a hot ESC (Castle).

Personally I would not fit HobbyKing servos on a large (expensive) scale heli. I use Futaba BLS. Reliability is FAR more important than speed for large scale, and torque is next - speed is last.

Make sure that whatever FBL you choose can adjust phasing electronically unless you will only use a multiblade head with built in phasing. I use older Skookum 720 blues on all 4 of my helis.

Once you have the gearing and worked out the desired motor kV, choosing a motor will be a lot easier.

Edit : Just had a look at the Roban 429 700 size and it lists the take-off weight as 8kg/17.2lbs (which sounds light to me) and the gearing as 1:13.8

Based on this you would need about 950W to fly, ±1100W to hover, and ±1600W to deal with Oh $hit moments. And (assuming a 530kV motor and 12s);

RPM = 530kV x 44.4V x 0.9 / 13.8 = 1535rpm at 100% towards the end of the flight, so you could easily govern in the 1380-1460rpm range.

I would suggest a 4 blade 700 closer to 1200-1250rpm as a starting place, so IMO a 530kV motor is a bit fast (assuming this gearing is correct). I see that they recommend a 450kV 750MX motor, which is pretty close to the kV I would suggest.

Have a look at a XNova 4030-470kV motor. I have two Xera 403-470kV motors (on which the XNova was based - almost identical), and they are great motors (in my Seahawk and Long Ranger).

Colin

Vario Long Ranger 700e
Seahawk 600
UH-1N 500
Baumann EC-145 800+ (coming soon )

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11-18-2015 11:40 AM  24 months agoPost 7
stemster

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kilmarnock

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Colin,

that is brilliant advice. Really, really helpful. I was looking at a Beast-X ar7200. I can can my hands on one quite easily. Would that be any good?

I've also been recommended this IKON http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...Technology.html

In terms of ESC, I've been recommended this.http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...ller_OPTO_.html

Presumably I'd beed a BEC/UBEC? Or could I just splip in a Ni/Cad to power the electrics? Not sure.

Again, your help Colin and others on this forum is brilliant. It's making a difference.

Thank you all

Geoff

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11-18-2015 11:58 AM  24 months agoPost 8
Heli143

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Phenix City, AL

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Hi stemster,
I have one of the 429 in Air Med scheme but decided to change it up since there are a few of those out here. I am changing mine to a Police/Air Med version with different markings and converting the interior to an Air med interior instead of the corporate interior it comes with.

As for your question, I went with the Phoneix Tech 500Kv motor that RCA sells for this application. I then purchased a CC Ice 2 HV80 ESC and running 12S. so far I am flying mine without a stabilization system, but plan on trying the AR7200BX on it.

I am not a fan of test flying a helicopter's mechanics in the fuse until after it's all sorted out so my mentor and friend Copterdoctor and I mounted the mechs on some LG and did the initial tests out of the fuselage.

Here are videos of the mechanics testing;

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

Roy Mayoral

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11-18-2015 12:09 PM  24 months agoPost 9
stemster

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kilmarnock

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Thank you so much. That is brilliant advice.

Very good to know these facts as it give me some extra confidence.

Geoff

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11-18-2015 10:26 PM  24 months agoPost 10
Copter Doctor

rrProfessor

Enterprise/ft.rucker​,al- home of army​aviation

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Joel Rosensweig also has one that he flies very nicely and he should be chiming in soon.
Like Roy said, he and me flew the mechs to make sure it flies well without incident before trusting it to the fuse and its a good thing we did because something in the tail drive let go. My advice to you is to take the mechs apart and reassemble with locktite. do not take for granted that because any one part or unit is already prebuilt it means everything is tight. there are a few things about the roban mechs I do not like, one of which is the size of the screws used for the sideframes and bearing blocks. the dome head screws use an allen wrench size that is smaller than it should be and makes those harder to remove screws strip.
as the video shows, it can be flown without a stab unit comfortably but most prefer the added help a stab unit provides.

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

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11-19-2015 08:22 AM  24 months agoPost 11
stemster

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kilmarnock

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Again, great advice and thank you. I agree about locktiting. I once bought a second hand vario pod boom gasser. Look great but in the fitst hover, luckily still in,groundveffect, the tail rotor assembly started to rotate around the boom. I got it down just in time.

Best wishes

Geoff

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11-19-2015 08:44 AM  24 months agoPost 12
Andy01

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Brisbane, Australia

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Geoff

I am not familiar with either Icon or BeastX, so I cannot comment on them.

My first inclination with the ESC would be to recommend something with a good size heat sink because they tend to be the hottest component inside a fully closed fuselage. I am not familiar with YEP, but for similar money (in fact cheaper recently, and probably next week on Black Friday) you could get a Castle Edge 80HV, and it usually ships with a voucher for a free Castlelink adapter etc so programming is really easy. I have two Ice 2 80HV, and one Edge 80HV, and they are good.

Personally I run two 2s A123 batteries to power my JR PowerSafe Rxs with redundant power supplies, and no extra failure point like a BEC. I would recommend either A123 or LiFe and servos rated for 6V. They are the same battery chemistry, and typically run between 6.6V and down to about 6.3V, and plenty of people use them without BEC or regulators. I would not recommend NiCd or NiMH.

Colin

Vario Long Ranger 700e
Seahawk 600
UH-1N 500
Baumann EC-145 800+ (coming soon )

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11-19-2015 04:44 PM  24 months agoPost 13
stemster

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kilmarnock

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Again, thank you Colin. Im in the UK so I doubt the black Friday will extend to RC. Its worth a go, however. Lol

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11-23-2015 11:54 PM  24 months agoPost 14
ckankel

rrNovice

Smiths, AL - USA

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If you haven't bought a motor yet, Eflite is selling their 500kv 700 size heli motor for $70. The price drop probably means it's about to be discontinued but that's a great price for a solid motor. I just picked one up for the Roban 800 size MD500 I'm getting soon.

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11-24-2015 07:33 AM  24 months agoPost 15
stemster

rrNovice

kilmarnock

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Thats great. Im in the uk so by the time i pay fir post and tax it will be more like 120 bucks. But its a good tip to see if they are in the uk and at a lower price. Thank you for this advice. Great.

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11-24-2015 01:10 PM  24 months agoPost 16
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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AR7200BX rx

I just got a chance to read through the entire post, and you have gathered a lot of excellent info so far, and are headed in the right direction..
As for the 7200, again a very good choice.. I have used several until I switched to the all new JR protocol..
It is very easy to set up, and gives you a nice clean install, since you get away from a second set of wires.. only one warning that I can think of is to NOT plug in your servos until you set the freq and centering on the unit... then it is just a matter of following step by step.. as long as you are running a plug and play head, you will not need electronic phasing, so no computer required...
Hope this will help you along...
Good luck with your build....
Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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01-10-2016 10:21 PM  22 months agoPost 17
stemster

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kilmarnock

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Well. Some dry fitting and measuring in preparation for the mechanics and electronics.

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01-15-2016 07:38 PM  22 months agoPost 18
stemster

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kilmarnock

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So, more dry fitting.

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01-15-2016 09:04 PM  22 months agoPost 19
old nitroman

rrVeteran

Naples florida

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looking great

E5s and E7se,and a 766, Roban bell 222 800 superscale,450 bell 4 bladed head,gobby 380and 420 ,180cfx

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03-29-2016 08:20 AM  19 months agoPost 20
stemster

rrNovice

kilmarnock

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update on roban bell 429 build

Sorry for the absence folks. Ive been busy with our other charity projects. See some pics below if build. Its all built, and to be honest, its bloody good. There are a few build issues but its not a big deal.

So Castle ice 2 hv all set up and i decided to chicken it and build a wooden rig to set up gpro and do the maiden to set up. Ill then pop back in the fuse and go for real. Hopefully this will be done in the next couple of weeks.

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HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Roban Bell429 build and help appreciated
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