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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersEngines › Is Auto Tune Going to Come to Model Helicopters?
10-02-2015 01:29 AM  26 months agoPost 1
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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I just bought a new chainsaw a few days ago. It is a Husqvarna 550XP and it came equipped with an auto tune carburetor. I haven't done any real work with it yet so I don't have any feel for how well the auto tune function is going to work. But if it works as I think it should, it could be pretty neat.

Any thoughts on trying this in a gasser heli? Is it the future or just another crutch for those that can't tune an engine? Are we going to see these on DA and DLE big gas model engines?

Any thoughts?

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Bill

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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10-02-2015 03:47 AM  26 months agoPost 2
Carey Shurley

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Orlando, FL - USA

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most likely trying to pass emission standards since its a 2 stroke engine

couldn't tell if its simply a mixture map or uses exhaust gas analysis as a guide

just need a tuner to access the mixture map to make a few........uh..........changes........

If you're not flying a gasoline helicopter
You're paying 10 times too much for fuel!!

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10-02-2015 05:44 AM  26 months agoPost 3
Gearhead

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Vt

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maybe for sport or scale, but it looks like too much junk on it for hardcore 3D

hmmmm, I wonder if those transfer ports are really shaped like that

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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10-02-2015 12:28 PM  26 months agoPost 4
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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hmmmm, I wonder in those transfer ports are really shaped like that
It appears that the transfer ports in the chain saw world are constructed and shaped differently than the model world. You can get some insight to their shape and construction in the video below. It appears that the ports, as viewed from the inside of the cylinder, are fairly conventional. The bypass channels themselves are largely external to the cylinder and are finished with external covers. This arrangement could have some very real advantages. By removing the cap you have complete and total access to the window in the cylinder.

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Most likely trying to pass emission standards since its a 2 stroke engine.
This notion has been floated out in the chain saw circles. Some view it as an accessory for those that don't know how to tune. Other say they love having a saw that runs perfectly all four seasons and every time they take it out. Some see it as an expensive option for EPA compliance - something many don't care very much about and aren't will to pay for.

The auto tune feature is only available on "professional" series saws. These are people that use a gas engine to make a living. They need something that is going to start and run and any tinkering is money lost. Changes in fuel, temperature or altitude are automatically compensated for. If it works as it's supposed to, it would be nice.

Everyone (myself included) is waiting to see how this feature holds up over time. What will autotune be like on a saw that is 20 years old? Will anyone know how to work on it or repair it? My local saw shop is very leery and pointed out that a standard Walbro is $45 vis $85 for this unit.

For me, chainsaws are a fascinating use of engines that are similar to the ones we use in our models. The difference is the completely abusive way they are used. You have a 50cc engine in a "box" smaller than a shoe-box that spends its entire life alternately on the rev-limiter and stalled shoved into a piece of wood. All this with limited airflow and its fins stuffed with wood chips. There is something to be learned there.

Bill

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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10-02-2015 01:48 PM  26 months agoPost 5
fastflyer20

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N. Tonawanda, NY

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No doubt it is coming.

Losi RC cars a while ago announced they would be offering fuel injection. To the best of my knowledge, it has never made it to the market.

I wonder if it will be sophisticated enough to handle our helis. Yamaha kept carbs on for years after others had converted to fuel injection because they were not happy with the performance. And they would have had a lot more research dollars than the small engine companies.

As mentioned earlier, in small engines it is geared for EPA, not performance.

Tom
CAUTION - my posts are based on my experiences, yours may be different.

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10-02-2015 02:54 PM  26 months agoPost 6
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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As mentioned earlier, in small engines it is geared for EPA, not performance.
This is a common thought but I wonder.

Auto Tune is only available on a few of Husqvarna's "professional series" saws. It is not available on any home or ranch use saws. Even Husqvarna's newer saws rated for "landowners - heavy duty, frequent use, or demanding use" are not available with Auto Tune.

The same is true for Stihl saws. Only "Professional Saws" come with what they call their M-Tronic system.

It would seem to me that if this was only about the EPA, all newer saws would come with a smart carb. I have to believe that while professional saws get more daily use, home and ranch saws are sold in much greater numbers and the greater impact to the environment would come from poorly tuned landowner saws.

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Bill

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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10-02-2015 03:22 PM  26 months agoPost 7
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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honestly, I can do without it.

I think the auto tune system will not come to our models, for for a long time...Just look at the evolution surefire EFI engine that had electronic controlled fuel injection...it came out with big fan fare, but then just didnt catch on for some reason, maybe cost, bulk, reliability, i dont know really.

But hats off to anybody that can make it small enough, reliable enough and effective enough to actually be worth it.

our Helis thrive on simplicity and the least weight possible...especially with fuel powered models.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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10-02-2015 11:27 PM  26 months agoPost 8
Gearhead

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Vt

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there is a lot going on in the porting of those engines,, notice the carbs, they have 2 intakes, looks like 1 is for the piston and the other is for the crank case, if fuel/air goes into the case then they must use some sort of Reed Valve, all that could deliver a lot of fuel and air

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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10-03-2015 04:00 AM  26 months agoPost 9
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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When I flew nitro years ago there was a very crude by today's standards a product called a Carb Smart made by CSM in England.
To make a long story short there was a temp sensor on the head {which was the tricky part to install} a computer and a micro servo that was connected to the main needle. You could set the temp limit you wanted on the head. There was no exhaust temp probe. My flight times went way up and the motor was fine. Also power was way up too. Not saying this would give gasser guys more power ,,I doubt it but it may help with burning them up.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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10-03-2015 04:16 PM  26 months agoPost 10
Jason Cummings

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St. Louis

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Autotune is for people with no talent. Look what it did to the music industry!

Synergy Field Rep

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10-03-2015 04:58 PM  26 months agoPost 11
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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Bill;

More likely to appear in IMAC, then maybe trickle down to Heli's.

Just a primitive (pre EPA) fuel injector system. The processor is the cheap part, the sensors are the hold up. Not really hard to do.

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10-17-2015 11:06 PM  26 months agoPost 12
jharkin

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Holliston, MA - USA

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Horizon tried to do electronic throttle body fuel injection for an airplane engine a couple years ago. They couldn't make it work and gave up.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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10-18-2015 03:42 AM  26 months agoPost 13
flysti06

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lebanon nj usa

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here is a fuel injection kit for 2 stroke
http://www.ecotrons.com/products/sm..._injection_kit/

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10-18-2015 05:54 AM  26 months agoPost 14
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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good luck getting that to work...its using a 28mm throttle body... which is twice the size of one for a zenoah 290... not to mention all the crap to hook up. just not worth the extra weight and additional complexity

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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10-19-2015 03:32 AM  26 months agoPost 15
Chris Bergen

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cassopolis, MI USA

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Obviously not "hobby", but actually works very well....

Will be installing their "UAV" system on the next one.

Gotta love naysayers, right RM3? Lol!

Chris D. Bergen

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10-19-2015 04:06 AM  26 months agoPost 16
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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nice try but I was implying use for helis we actually fly for fun, how many of us here are flying sport or 3D with a 2 cylinder twin... your application is for industrial/comercial use...so like I said, it wont work on the engines we are using in Radikals, Predators, Goblin Conversions, HeliBugs and the like.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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10-19-2015 04:21 AM  26 months agoPost 17
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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He Said
Obviously not "hobby", but actually works very well....
He tried nothing RM3

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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10-19-2015 05:13 AM  26 months agoPost 18
flysti06

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lebanon nj usa

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3d probably not worth it, sport flying sure it would work but would it be practical.... NOT REALLY, but if you like to tinker and can effectively tune stand alone EFI.... and have a few hundred bucks to unload go for it.

The novelty thought of EFI on a non-commercial helicopter or any "hobbyist" RC for that matter is no different then a guy that buys an $3000 18mz radio just to hover and tinker around with his helicopter... it really just to say he/she CAN!

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10-20-2015 01:54 AM  26 months agoPost 19
Chris Bergen

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cassopolis, MI USA

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With a new exhaust system.....

Consider this, we have to start somewhere... While THIS particular system may not be viable for "hobby" helicopters, it's a start and what we learn from this may lead us to something that CAN be implemented on smaller engines.

What technologies are we using today, that are commonplace, that the naysayers said a few years ago were too expensive, too complicated, or "not for the hobby"?

If we always believed the negative nanny's we'd still be dreaming of collective pitch heli's!!

Chris D. Bergen

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10-20-2015 02:15 AM  26 months agoPost 20
jbjones

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Columbus, Mississippi

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Chris Bergen: With a new exhaust system
Wow...looks awesome, Chris!

Any chance the customer lets you post some pubic video of that monster hovering (With audio, of course!)?

-JB

J. B. Jones

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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersEngines › Is Auto Tune Going to Come to Model Helicopters?
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