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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsKDS E-Bar › KDS E-Bar with Futaba Sbus
06-17-2015 12:56 PM  35 months agoPost 1
chicagoslick

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Indiana, USA

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Hello Everyone,

I recently purchased an ebar and am having trouble setting the unit up. I am using a Futaba 14SG radio with a R6303SB receiver installed in a JR Forza 450 heli. I do not have clear directions on how to wire the unit nor how the radio should be initially setup. The receiver is talking to the transmitter, but not to the ebar.

I have tried radio settings:

1. Setting the radio to H-1 (this should be the right choice)
2. Setting the radio to HR3 (as the manual would lead you to think)
3. Ebar set to sbus

Wiring:

1. Sbus receiver to Sbus ebar
2. ESC to ESC / col ebar
3. rudder to ebar 4
4. rt cyclic to ebar 3
5. lt cyclic to ebar 1
6. elevator to ebar 2

I appreciate any help that can be provided...

thanks,

gary

Chicagoslick

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06-17-2015 01:22 PM  35 months agoPost 2
chicagoslick

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Indiana, USA

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Also forgot to mention that the helicopter's servos are responding to the ebar when you pick the helicopter up. The servos will try to correct attitude and tail rotor position. I do not have transmitter control.

thanks again...

Chicagoslick

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06-17-2015 06:19 PM  35 months agoPost 3
Garryowen

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Lititz PA

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I found this at another website. Credit goes to 'Jesse'. I have not tried to set mine up yet, but I have the exact same set up as you and have been researching how to do it. Let me know how it goes.

Jeff
_______________________________________________________

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=693386

EbarV2 Basics
Setup.
Start with a new model in your TX.
Choose Helicopter type
Choose swash type h-1 or single servo
Next verify you have all of the plugs installed correctly in the ebar and rx (normally you leave the servo 4 or tail servo unplugged until you go into the ebar and set the correct frequencies)
Mounting Menu
Then you need to power up the tx, then the ebar and set it to match your radio. If you are using a full rx then you will choose normal. Spektrum sat should choose KDS/JR or Futaba sbus is sbus
Next you need to select the correct type of swash that is on your heli.
And then choose the orientation. Label up and wires to the front is front or wires to the back is back
I recommend now turning everything off then back on and moving the sticks. Verify all control surfaces move the correct way. Use servo reversing in the transmitter to change anything that is not. After all is moving correct verify the gyro is compensating the correct direction by tilting the helicopter. The swash should move opposite of the tilt. If it is not then you can reverse aileron and elevator in your tx. And then go into the ebar and reverse servo 1,2 or 3 as needed. (Servo Menu) Once again verify direction and compensation is correct.
Now you will power down and on again. This time you will look for the swash to bounce once or twice. If it is twice then go into your tx and reverse the pitch direction, you will also need to go into the ebar menu under controls and change the pitch direction here.
Cycle the system again and observe for the 1 bounce. If good verify pitch input moves the swash the correct way and that all servos and compensation movements are correct.
Monitor Screen
Now you should power down and on again.
Go to the monitor screen in the ebar and all numbers should be zero. Even if they are you need to verify you have calibrated centers perfectly. So go into the tx and go to the sub-trim menu. Start with Aileron and begin moving the subtrim for Aileron in the radio (not the trim on the tabs on the front of the radio, You should be in the internal menu or the tx under subtrim) Begin moving the aileron number until you get to zero. If already at zero move if 1 click at a time until you see 1 or -1. Now begin going the other way slowly and counting the clicks until you see the opposite 1. Divide this number in half and go back that many clicks. This is the true center. Repeat for every line: Ail,Elev,Rudd,Pit. (tip for pitch. Go into the tx menu under monitor and move your pitch stick until the tx monitor screen says zero. Leave the stick in that position and go back to the subtrim menu and do the same as the others.
Next you need to go the the End Point or ATV menu. You should still be in the ebar monitor screen. What you are doing now is moving each stick in one direction. And then increasing the corresponding end point so that you see 100 in the ebar monitor. This could be a different number for each one in the tx. What is important is that the ebar reads them as zero and 100 in every direction.
Now you are calibrated. (This will eliminate any drift as now the tx and ebar are speaking the same language.
On to mechanical stuff now.
Controls Menu
Go to the controls menu line 3 in ebar. When your cursor is over this it will lock your cyclic servos at what it thinks is zero pitch. So now you need to install the servo arms as close to 90 degrees as possible. If they are not perfect it’s ok. Get them as close as possible.
Servo Menu
Now go to servo menu in ebar and start at line 5. This is the subtrim for the servo 1. You can move this number up and down until the arm is perfectly 90 degrees. Repeat this for each servo. 1,2,3 line 5,6,7 in the ebar
Now you are getting close.
You will now need a swash leveler and a pitch gauge.
Cycle everything off then on.
Controls Menu
Remove the head of the helicopter.
Go to line 3 in controls menu (this will lock servos at zero pitch.)
Install the swash level and adjust linkages until the swash is perfectly level.
Remove the swash level and install the head.
Use a pitch gauge. (Normally I start with the head 90 degrees to the tail. Zero the pitch gauge on the tail boom or a flat part of the heli running from front to back.) very important not to move heli now and to make sure head is 90 to tail boom.
Verify pitch is Zero. If not adjust upper linkages to make perfectly zero.
It is possible that you may need to move swash up or down. If so you will need to repeat the early steps to level the swash. It may take a few times but making it perfect will reward you with a heli that will pirouette perfectly with no drift or wobble.
Now we need to set the positive and negative pitch range.
Cycle everything off and on
Make sure you motor is unplugged. Place the transmitter in Idle up or in a mode that you have a linear 0-100 pitch curve.
Start in the controls menu on line 3.
Have your heli level and pitch gauge installed with blades 90 to boom.
Move tx pitch stick all the way up . Nothing should move. Now move the cursor in the ebar from line 3 to line to. The swash will jump up. Read pitch. Move the cursor back to line 3 and it will jump to zero. Read pitch gauge to verify. Now move tx pitch stick all the way down. Next move cursor from line 3 to line 2. Swash will jump down. Read pitch gauge. Depending on the model and what head etc you have the next steps may change.
For instance if one of the directions you have a number you are happy with. Like 12 or 12.5. and the other direction was close like 1-2 degrees. I would just go in my transmitter under end points and adjust the end point to make the other the same. If your range is not enough either way you can increase or decrease the total range by changing the number under controls menu line 2. You may need to repeat these steps a few times to get everything perfect.
After this you will move your head were one blade is over the tail boom. You need to reset your pitch gauge for this orientation. You will move the cursor to line 4 and read the pitch gauge. Normally you want to adjust line 4 to get 8 degrees here. If you are a very aggressive flier you might like 9 better. You can change to suit your style.
At this time I recommend going down to line 5 and changing the expo to zero. If you want to use expo use it in your radio.
Tail Adjust
Read the specs on your servo. If you are unsure what numbers ask. And set the pulse and freq correctly. Now it is safe to plug the tail servo in.
You will now want to go to the monitor screen in the ebar. This will disable the gyro and allow you to place the tail servo horn on at 90 degrees.
Go back to the tail adjust menu and scroll down to line 4. Move your rudder stick completely in one direction and adjust the corresponding number in the ebar until you get maximum travel that direction. Repeat for the other direction. Look at the two numbers in the ebar. They should be with 15 of each other. If not you need to adjust the tail linkage rod or if you don’t have enough adjustment move the servo horn slightly one direction or the other. Now re-check tail travel and adjust as needed.
At this time I recommend going down to line 9 and changing expo to 0. Again if you want expo use it in the radio.
Now your heli is setup. Any and all tuning adjustments are made in the ebar module. If you want to increase tail gain you change the number 6 under tail adjust menu. If you need swash gain you change the number 2 under Fly Mode.
Most people are using a number from 80-95 for motion. Adjust to your flying style.
If you want more or less pitch you just change the number 2 under controls. Since you made everything perfect in setup this number will add or remove the same amount of positive and negative pitch at the same time.
If you want the pirouette rate faster or slower just raise or lower the number 7 under tail adjust.
If you want the tail to stop harder or softer. Change letter A or B under tail adjust.
You probably get the point now.
Hope this helps. If you have more trouble let me know.
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06-17-2015 06:42 PM  35 months agoPost 4
chicagoslick

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Indiana, USA

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Jeff,

Thanks for the reply. I have read through all the info and it appears I have everything set as stated. I did not do the power downs after every thing I updated and maybe that is the key. I did do saves all along the way and maybe that is the issue. Like I said the heli appears to operate correctly when picked up and tilted or moved, however I do not have any control with my transmitter. My guess is something is not right with the sbus selection or with my receiver. It would be nice to have a wiring diagram and specific instructions for setting up the radio...Again thanks for response,

gary

Chicagoslick

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06-17-2015 07:11 PM  35 months agoPost 5
Garryowen

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Lititz PA

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Do you think you have the correct channel group assigned to the receiver?

I know the Sbus port never changes but you may need to set it up for "group 7" to get the receiver to talk to the gyro. Just a guess on my end. I don't have the receiver next to me to test it out.

Here's a copy of the manual in case you need it:

http://manuals.hobbico.com/fut/r6303sb-manual.pdf

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06-17-2015 09:29 PM  35 months agoPost 6
chicagoslick

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Indiana, USA

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You may be on to something with the group 7 designation. I thought it came configured that way but maybe that is not the case. Thanks for the info. I will check it tonight and post back tomorrow.

Thanks again...

Chicagoslick

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06-18-2015 12:41 PM  35 months agoPost 7
chicagoslick

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Indiana, USA

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Well checked on the group setting within the Futaba receiver and it was set to group 1. Changed group setting from 1 to 7 and confirmed. Steps for changing Futaba receiver group setting are below:

1. With transmitter off, press and hold button on receiver for 5 seconds until receiver flashes red fast.

2. The receiver will now blink the code for which group it is set to. (refer to receiver booklet showing table of groups.) for group 7 it should be red and green flash simultaneously.

3. Press the button one click at a time until the right light sequence, representing the group you desire, is flashing.

4. Press and hold button for 5 seconds until receiver goes back to solid red.

5. Cycle power and check to ensure the right group is represented. (this is done by pressing button again for 5 seconds, confirming correct light display, and then pressing for 5 seconds again to leave setup)

Now back to my issue. I have the receiver set correctly (great help by Jeff) but issue is unchanged. I still cannot talk to the ebar via the transmitter. I also notice that the settings I make to the ebar are not being saved. Each time I cycle power to the ebar unit the settings reset to default. I have tried exactly what the book says; and what videos I have watched; and the write-up Jeff provided.

Does any KDS reps out there know the best path forward? I welcome any help that can be provided.[U]

thanks again,

Gary

Chicagoslick

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06-18-2015 11:30 PM  35 months agoPost 8
fastrc1

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Planet Brooklyn, NY-USA

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Set the channel group to the default setting. Set your SG14 to single servo mode and not ccpm. Look @ the diagram of the swash plate in the KDS manual and plug your corresponding servos into ports 1-4 and plug SBUS into where it goes on the 6303 and the EBAR. if a servo is not working in the right direction simply reverse it in either the radio or the EBAR. It's quicker in the radio. Be sure to set the EBAR to SBUS and make sure you have the servo type set for digital or whichever you're using. Also be sure to set the rx to high speed mode if you're using digital servos.

Eaton

RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.
Team Futaba USA
Team Kontronik USA
Member of Planet Brooklyn NY

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06-20-2015 02:18 PM  35 months agoPost 9
chicagoslick

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Indiana, USA

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Tried all of that already...thanks for reply...

Chicagoslick

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06-20-2015 05:04 PM  35 months agoPost 10
Garryowen

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Lititz PA

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Gary,

Just a shot in the dark here. Are you sure the receiver is linked to the transmitter? Try plugging a servo directly in to a regular slot on the receiver to see what happens.

I was able to set mine up last night. Lots of guessing as far as which servos needed reversing and what not. Other than that, It was pretty straight forward based on the various web based instructions I found. The manual that comes with it is definitely lacking.

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06-20-2015 05:39 PM  35 months agoPost 11
fastrc1

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Hey Guys it's really not that much guess work. 1-2-3 corresponding to ail elev n pitch. Reverse whatever's wrong in the radio. yes the book is a bit so so but the controller works well.

RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.
Team Futaba USA
Team Kontronik USA
Member of Planet Brooklyn NY

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06-20-2015 05:49 PM  35 months agoPost 12
chicagoslick

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Indiana, USA

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Receiver is linked and working correctly. I bought 2 of these e-bars and both are responding the same way. Its hard for me to believe 2 of these units would be defective, so I definitely know something is not set correctly. Since you tried this last night let me ask this simple question.

When you plug the programmer into the ebar and change the RX Type to Sbus or make any change for that matter do you simply press enter at the change of each item? Do you press save at any point? And if after powering the ebar down and supplying power again can you go in and see that the settings are as you left them?

No matter what I do the settings do not stay? When I power the unit down and repower it the settings default back to the original setting. This tells me that the settings are not actually being saved into the unit, therefore no Sbus communications...

Gary

Chicagoslick

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06-20-2015 06:32 PM  35 months agoPost 13
Garryowen

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Lititz PA

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I don't know why the settings are not saving for you. Maybe an internal battery is bad (if there is even is one)?? But both not working seems suspect. I'll search around for some schematics of the hardware.

I used a nicad reciever battery on the bench to set it up. I hit the save button any time I removed power to it and the changes were always there when I powered it back up. I just checked again now and it is still good to go.

What do you think Eaton?

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06-20-2015 06:39 PM  35 months agoPost 14
chicagoslick

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Indiana, USA

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I am going to take some videos of my setup and I will reply with postings on and links for youtube....thanks gain for the help...

gary

Chicagoslick

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06-20-2015 06:45 PM  35 months agoPost 15
fastrc1

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Give me until this evening. I'm on the road. I'll get you guys squared away.

RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.
Team Futaba USA
Team Kontronik USA
Member of Planet Brooklyn NY

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06-20-2015 07:42 PM  35 months agoPost 16
chicagoslick

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Indiana, USA

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Ok here are some videos I posted to youtube. (no particular order)

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

Chicagoslick

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06-20-2015 09:53 PM  35 months agoPost 17
fastrc1

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I've come to the conclusion based on your vids that the issue is with your programmer and not the FBL. I had one bad programmer that would constantly reboot itself an the FBL when it was plugged in. I have about 8 of the KDS V2 and used another programmer with no issues. Send the programmer back to those chaps in Texas and I'm sure they'll resolve it. It is however unnecessary to change the Rx to mode 7. Run it in the default. I use that Rx with the CGY750 as well and still haven't had cause to change the mode from default. Everything I've observed you do is correct.

Eaton

RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.
Team Futaba USA
Team Kontronik USA
Member of Planet Brooklyn NY

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06-21-2015 01:51 AM  35 months agoPost 18
chicagoslick

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Indiana, USA

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I finally figured the problem out. Bad cables. After using my own cable the ebar was able to be programmed. I would have never thought I had 2 bad cables. Based on the programming units powering up and appearing to work correctly I would have never suspected this. May be due to how tight they wrap the cables up for finally packaging.

Special thanks to Jeff and Eaton for all of their help...

Chicagoslick

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06-21-2015 02:09 AM  35 months agoPost 19
fastrc1

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I'm glad you got it resolved. It's a pretty nice and straight forward system. Enjoy.

Eaton

RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.
Team Futaba USA
Team Kontronik USA
Member of Planet Brooklyn NY

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06-21-2015 03:28 AM  35 months agoPost 20
chicagoslick

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Indiana, USA

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I just finished setting the unit up and bench testing. everything looks good. May try to fly tomorrow and see how things look. Will post back as to how well it fly's. Thanks again...

gary

Chicagoslick

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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsKDS E-Bar › KDS E-Bar with Futaba Sbus
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