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Helicopter
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Century Radikal E640 - Swift 16 NX
› Why use brushless when there is the Acro 280?
12-22-2003 02:22 AM  13 years agoPost 1
Heliaddict

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Belle Chasse, LA USA

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Wow! I finally got my Acro 280bb 6 volt timed and installed.
I am using an 8 tooth pinion (piccolo tail pinon drilled out to fit the Acro) and it has plenty of power to spare.

I was just about to order a brushless setup because I was worried about doing the timing on the Acro but I went ahead and cut the little clips with my dremmel, hooked up my amp meter and went for it. I figured if I screwed it up I was going to get a brushless anyway. Timing the motor made a big change in the rpm range from what it was running before retiming it and I ran it for 15 minutes and the motor was only 92 degrees.

Now I know it will get a lot hotter when I install the airwolf body but I think it should still run at an acceptable temp and if not I will just cut the window areas out of the airwolf body and use some fine screen for windows.

I really can't see needing any more power than this acro motor has but if after adding the final touches and body if it needs any more power than I can just increase the pinion size and it shoud be balistic.
My only worry is my old piccolo piccoboard that I am using was cutting off during flight with the stock 370 gold motor but it didn't cut off one time with the Acro so maybe the acro draws less amps than the stock motor and it will be ok.

If anyone is on the edge of buying a brushless maybe you should look at the Acro as it has more power than you could ever need with the fixed pitch hummer.

Randy

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12-22-2003 02:31 AM  13 years agoPost 2
Bluesilver30

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USAF Academy, CO - USA

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i was looking at getting one of these for my hummingbird, but i havn't heard of timing it before. why did you "time" it and what does it do? and do you have any links that explain how you time it?

-Nick

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12-22-2003 02:47 AM  13 years agoPost 3
darkside212

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Milwaukee, WI USA

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Me to!!!!

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12-22-2003 03:18 AM  13 years agoPost 4
Heliaddict

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Belle Chasse, LA USA

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The motor was actualy setup from the factory to run in the opposite direction than is required for our helis so it is timed for the other direction.

Here is the directions that I followed and it worked out great.

Randy

Get an Ammeter and hook up one of your batteries to the motor through the ammeter. See what it reads in the stock timing with the motor running the way it is designed to, ie +to+ and -to-. Do this with no load, ie no prop or anything. Write down what you got. Mine was .86 A.
Now, desolder the capacitors from the case and hook up the motor in the reverse direction, +to- and - to+. Assuming you cut your crimps, rotate the endbell clockwise when viewed from the back. Do this VERY slowly and watch the ammeter. I actually stopped the motor and turned it 1/16" and restarted the motor because turning the endbell is a little difficult and tends to jump rather than smoothly rotate.
You will see the amp draw go down, and go back up the further you go. You will also hear the motor turning faster. It will be starting to get warm by now. When you reach the SAME current draw you wrote down earlier, STOP.
Resolder the cap's back in place. You will need to scrape the plastic coating off of the case and rough up that area with some sandpaper. Then tin the spot and then attach your cap's. If you dont do it like this, you will overheat the cap's trying to solder them in place and possibly damage them, not to mention the inner workings of your motor.
At this point re-do your crimps, or tap a small hole in the case and hold the endbell in place with a tiny setscrew.
Hope this helps, the RPM increase is very noticable.
One more thing, I took a dremel cut off disc and cut through the crimps on each side, I dont think bending them out is a good idea, you will just make a mess of your can and endbell. If you are careful when you cut, your motor will look almost untouched.
co

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12-22-2003 04:02 AM  13 years agoPost 5
woody

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Nothwest Pa.

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Pics?

Hey, that is some good info, but does anyone have any pics?
Woody

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12-22-2003 06:31 AM  13 years agoPost 6
Carlos2

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Just some additional info for those folks who have not been around that long...the Acro will work just fine without retiming it.

Heliaddict is right about it having plenty of power. Next to brushless, this thing can't be beat. While it is not maintanance free because of the brushes, you should be able to get at least 50 hours of flight out of one before you have to get brushes. Mine is on its second set of brushes and the motor has around 80 hours of total flight time with no maintanance other than the occasional cleaning.

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12-22-2003 10:49 PM  13 years agoPost 7
Heliaddict

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Belle Chasse, LA USA

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Hey guys Carlos may be right about not needing to retime the motor as I only bench ran mine before retiming it so I can't tell you first hand how it would have run in my hummer but I can tell you that after retiming it the rpms were a lot higher, had less arcing on the commutator and runs cooler.

So before you attempt to retime your motor you may want to test run it in your heli as you may be satisfied with it the way it is but if not you have an option.
I know I love the power and it is on 8 tooth pinion I could just imagine on 9 or 10 tooth but I guess it runs more efficient on the 8 tooth.

I will for sure be getting one of these for my card cobra piccolo as even a brand new 310 tuning motor hardly flys mine for more than 6 minutes on the same 2 cell packs I use with my hummer.

BTW: anyone know where I can find some 1.8 mm pinions to fit this motor as I had to drill (by hand) some piccolo tail pinions to fit the Acro so the shaft can't be 2mm like the stock motor or the piccolo motor because the piccolo main motor gears that I ordered would not fit the acro, the hole was too big.

Randy

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12-23-2003 12:52 AM  13 years agoPost 8
aarinsingh

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Thompson, MB

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http://www.zebrahobby.ca/cgi-bin/cp...OME:helicopters


Zebra has plastic Pinions in sets of three. great for stocking up on to try different configurations. I've had good service from these shop, and he says he hasn't had any trouble with the plastic pinions wearing out.

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01-17-2004 03:58 AM  13 years agoPost 9
aarinsingh

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Thompson, MB

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re-timing gone wild

I followed the heli-addicts retiming advice, and found I had rotated the end bell about 8mm or slightly more then 1/4". The ampmeter, is back up to .89 However I noticed I could run it alot higher if I continued to rotate it. The RPM gain was huge. Would this be benificial? or is it a case of more rpm, but less power when its re-installed. The other obvious question, is would it have any kinda lifespan? Hope somebody can help me out here.

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01-17-2004 04:08 AM  13 years agoPost 10
superhero

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Montreal, Quebec

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aarinsingh

It will draw more amps at higher rpm, so less air time you have to make a balance in power and consumption cause you can have hudge power but for less fly time.

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01-17-2004 04:12 AM  13 years agoPost 11
aarinsingh

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Thompson, MB

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So more trial and error, I'm moving to Li-po anyhow, I can't see a slightly bigger draw being a bad thing. As long as I don't cook the board. Is any idea as to how far is to far?

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01-17-2004 04:15 AM  13 years agoPost 12
Carlos2

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I actually tried this with an Acro280 that I suspect was a 7.2volt because it had horrible run times (around 3 or 4 minutes with bad power). I found the same thing you did Aarinsingh, the RPMs shot through the roof just by moving the endbell more and more. It peaked when the endbell was about 90 degrees from its original position.

I actually did what you are wondering about and ran it where I found the peak RPM. My results: don't do it. The temps got so hot that I could actually smell the motor from a few feet away (with an outside air temp of about 5 degrees farhenheit). It was cooked hot, scalding, dont even try to touch it hot. And on top of it, it didnt have any power, after about a minute of runtime, it settled back to the ground.

When I moved the endbell approximately the same amount you did, I found I had the longest runtime. (about 6.5 minutes, or exactly the same length of time my good 6 volt Acro gives me, without retiming). Oddly though, after a few days of flying 6 minute fligths with the motor, I started getting shorter flights with less power. I dont know if the overheating killed my motor or not. I guess it is a possiblity with how hot it got.

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01-17-2004 04:18 AM  13 years agoPost 13
Carlos2

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Aarinsingh,

I forgot to ask, you have a 6 volt acro correct?

Have your flight times increased? By how much? What is your general setup?

I'm dying to know because I will crack open my good Acro and retime it if I can squeeze a bit more time out of it.

Thanks

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01-17-2004 04:21 AM  13 years agoPost 14
aarinsingh

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Thompson, MB

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well I kinda goofed on the retiming, I took my read, and then started twisting the end bell, without reversing the input current, so it ran mighty fast, but I was holding it in my hand the entire time, and it never got more then warm. now this is no load etc. so hopefully I haven't damaged it. I'm a more power kinda guy though so a lil extra would always be nice. The meter went up to 5.0 Amps in my twisting. There is a fair bit of room between .89 and 5.0 I wonder what 1.5 would be like. Hmmmm I think I'll fly it at the re-timed setting, same amps as original, and see.

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01-17-2004 04:23 AM  13 years agoPost 15
aarinsingh

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Thompson, MB

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Carlos. Actually I have the 7.2V same as xbox. except he couldn't get his bird off the ground, and mine flew as good as the stock 370 or better. I been flying mine without retiming, and getting 4 mins or so, mostly hovering as I don't have room to do much else. I'll let you know how it turns out when I get it back together.

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01-17-2004 04:32 AM  13 years agoPost 16
Carlos2

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Darn, I was hoping someone else would do the work for me

So your 7.2 volt flew fine? That is odd. I bought a second 6 volt Acro and it sucked rocks, for some reason my runtime and power were way down. I thought maybe it was really a 7 volt. I'm starting to wonder if they get the labeling wrong on them. Some people have wondered if there even was a difference between the 7 and 6 volt. Who knows, Im kinda confused about all this.

Maybe I was just unlucky and got a bad Acro the second time around. At least my first one is still running strong after all this time. I haven't heard of anyone else though saying they have gotten a bad Acro.

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01-17-2004 04:43 AM  13 years agoPost 17
aarinsingh

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Thompson, MB

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I bought this one, and Great hobbies claimed it was a 6.0 V It's sold under greatplanes name, and came labeled as a 7.2V

I talked to them about it, and they claim they are identical, nad just labeled and marketed differently. I was told they all come from simprop, and its strictly a matter of labeling. I forget what I paid for the motor but it was around the 27-30 range, which is 20 cheaper then the 6.0V simprop from other shops.

I'm no expert at this new fangled electrical mumbo jumbo, but GH didn't want to take it back, and when the stock motor died, I stuck it in hoping I could make it work. That was back in Nov. I haven't done a huge amount of flying but certainly more then the 370 lasted for.

I'd buy anouther, that is if I can't talk myself into spending on a brushless. Guess we'll see how it works

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01-17-2004 04:54 AM  13 years agoPost 18
Carlos2

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I remember one of your posts talking about that. I just don't understand how they can claim that they will charge you 20% more on an item because it is labeled 6 volt. It doesnt make any sense. Why not sell them all for the more expensive price to not look suspicious, and they'd make even more money.

I'm one that believes there has to be a difference between them. Why would a small company spend money to make two different labels when it is the same product? How they would be different though, I don't know.

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01-17-2004 05:23 AM  13 years agoPost 19
superhero

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Montreal, Quebec

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There is not a thousand manufacture for these kind of motor worlwide.
I beleive they all come from the same plant somewhere in taiwan and they just went through a different line of trader like the cpu that we have in our computer Intel say that you have a p4 1800 mhz when in fact you have a underclock 2500 mhz.
May be I'm wrong but it's like automobile parts. You have OEM and after market that come from the same plant and sell in different box for different price.
Or like the hummingbird,Dragonfly,Cupid,Aerofly they are all from the same desing(Probably from the same manufacturing plant) with different distributor and price.

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01-17-2004 05:44 AM  13 years agoPost 20
aarinsingh

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Thompson, MB

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Well its done, and it did improve power. I ended up at 1.29 A all said and done, it must have slipped a bit when I was putting the end cap back on. I didn't run out a whole pack as the rest of the house is sleeping and there just isn't enough room to hover in the workshop

I did wonder about the capaciters though. How do you check to make sure you didn't fry them. I held the caps when I was soldering and they get hot fast, but never to hot to hold. I tryed a continuity test and they failed that. are they normally open or closed?

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Helicopter
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Century Radikal E640 - Swift 16 NX
› Why use brushless when there is the Acro 280?
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