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HelicopterMain Discussion › Fbl control question
04-09-2015 08:31 PM  34 months agoPost 21
Jacoub

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Kuwait

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dahld
Are you ignoring my posts?!! Mikado guy??

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04-09-2015 09:49 PM  34 months agoPost 22
dahld

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@ Jacoub,

Your question, "Are you ignoring my posts?!! Mikado guy??"

Hmmm...how to answer that one?

Taking your two posts together, I've come to these conclusions:

* You're not a fan of Mikado (OK, many guys aren't...no issue there).
* You have 6 gas airplanes and your experience tells you most if not all airplanes need mixing (we agree on that).
* You for some reason think I'm responsible for "adding this gyro for planes" (I'm not. Personnel inside the company Mikado are. I don't work for Mikado, but my son Kyle does, but I have next to zero influence on what the company does).
* You plan on ordering a V-Bar in the future (Nice. I can't help but think you'll like it).
* You want me to do this: "And if you can add a sticky to your website that contains the gains and setting for each model to be the starting piont, you can study each model by a professional piolt, not just adding the agility model size (which is it fine).
you can know the best seller and the most common brands
."

I guess all I can say is I don't have a website, and I don't have the information you're asking for. Kyle on the other hand, did prototype the software in many types of aircraft designs from foam trainers to jets, in order to establish for the software engineer appropriate values for all the adjustments in the software, so there would be "starting points" to the consumer, based on the type of model the system is being used on.

I hope this information helps in some way.

(-: Dave Dahl

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04-09-2015 10:18 PM  34 months agoPost 23
Cobra 46

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Cambridge il usa

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Dhald and rc flyer are contradicting comments. So I'm still not sure.
They both make sence because of rate gyro and HH gyro
But are the cyclic servos rate or HH Lol

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04-09-2015 10:47 PM  34 months agoPost 24
Jacoub

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dahld
Thank you for your good inputs, any one will be proud to be Mikado if they have some people like you, many thanks

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04-09-2015 11:06 PM  34 months agoPost 25
rcflyerheli

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Granbury, TX USA

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Dave, I am not contradicting anything you said.

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04-09-2015 11:25 PM  34 months agoPost 26
dahld

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@ Cobra 46,

What rcflyerheli and I both don't know, is EXACTLY FOR SURE how the cyclic algorithms process the data from the sensors. He suggests (but says he's not sure), that the cyclic is more RATE that HH. I'll suggest the cyclic acts more like HH than RATE, but I'm not positive either.

But either way, what you can take away from this discussion is something I bet we both agree on, and that is that the heli flies pretty damn straight and true, with no fore/aft and right/left cyclic interactions like you get with a mechanically stabilized flybarred heli. Loops are straight and rolls are axial, and fast forward flight is like a heli on rails.

Hope this helps settle the question for you,

(-: Dave

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04-09-2015 11:59 PM  34 months agoPost 27
rcflyerheli

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Cobra 46

One thing that I am in complete agreement with Dave is that it really doesn't matter. That's all built into the controller. What the controller does is to add the stabilization that the paddles added in a mechanical setup.

I do think that the aircraft setup adds essentially heading hold function to the various aerodynamic axes stability. I don't know if it actually trims the various control surfaces to make up for any mechanical deficiencies, or if it just looks at any angular deviation during flight and tries to keep that at 0.

From what I have read and seen, the trim function isn't active all the time, and I think that initially you would need to have at least a flyable aerodynamic setup. The trim function would then correct any minor inconsistencies to give you a true flying aircraft.

Many years ago, I majored in Aerospace Engineering, and I designed a couple pattern aircraft back in the 80's. I know that there are a lot of design concepts that go into aircraft stability and control. It is a fact that various axis interactions can be designed out (for instance for knife edge flight you need the rolling moment that is generated by the rudder application to be exactly equal and opposite to that generated by dihedral effect). With the angular measurement in the controller, all that has to happen is that you manually roll the aircraft into knife edge, and apply rudder to provide the yawing of the fuselage to get the lift to keep it level, and the controller will stop any tendency to have adverse or proverse roll as well as pitch tendencies due to canopy placement and incidence.

Again, like Dave said, I don't know exactly how it works, but looking at the videos, it seems to work pretty darn well. Enough so that I am now back to working on my Duellist 40 that got partially built 6 years ago with the intent of having a Vbar in it.

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04-10-2015 12:50 AM  34 months agoPost 28
dahld

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rcflyerheli's comment,

"I don't know if it actually trims the various control surfaces to make up for any mechanical deficiencies, or if it just looks at any angular deviation during flight and tries to keep that at 0."

Some info on that:
There are no trim tabs on the transmitter. You hold a spring loaded switch and fly the airplane to straight and level flight, and the system quickly "learns" what it takes to overcome out-of-trim control surfaces, warped airframes, poor thrust angles...whatever the issue is, and once the switch is released, the airplane is "trimmed".

If you're not happy with what you got, just flip the switch again, and re-trim it..as many times as you like until you get the model flying in what you consider "straight and level".

From that point on, anywhere you leave an axis, it stays there via heading hold algorithms. Perfect up and down lines, axial rolls, knife edge, power changes and torque variables don't effect the model anymore etc. Trust me when I say, it spoils you real quick.

But, just like with the heli software, how aggressive you want the gains and stops, and several other features are adjustable to suit how the pilot wants the model to feel in the air.

Bank switching is of course still available, so different set-ups are at the flip of a switch. So much more to the system, but that's for another time and place.

(-: Dave

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04-10-2015 01:57 AM  34 months agoPost 29
EEngineer

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TX

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@dahld

Old habits are hard to break....I'm just accustomed to holding stick as necessary with a fixed wing....

Would feel weird to me otherwise...

And I like Mikado and VStabi products, and think that Mikado USA is doing a great job.....

Just wish Mikado USA had "Mikado Mints"....like ReadyHeli had RH mints....

One time, when I asked RH for extra mints with an order, they packed the items using RH mints instead of "packing peanuts"...LOL

But I've eaten them all.....

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04-10-2015 02:27 AM  34 months agoPost 30
Cobra 46

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Ok guys thanks for the inf. I do believe I understand ! 😄
Now I know what to shoot for ! It's hard when there no other heli pilots around !! I don't know how I would have got to where I am today without the members here on RR !
Thanks again. Gene

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04-10-2015 02:59 AM  34 months agoPost 31
rcflyerheli

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I know very well what you mean. Having flown Mode 1 all my life, I had to teach myself to even fly helis. It was really hard not having anyone to help me with my initial setups or to buddy box with when I first started off flying.

I tried flying on a Mode 2 sim, and pretty quickly decided if I tried to reteach myself to fly Mode 2, I was gonna tear up a whole lot of stuff.

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04-10-2015 04:54 AM  34 months agoPost 32
EEngineer

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A friend of mine flys Mode 1....and I could never switch from Mode 2 to 1....I'd crash....

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04-12-2015 12:46 AM  34 months agoPost 33
Cobra 46

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I have a hard time not crashing keeping all things the same !!
Although I did switch from thumbs to pinch !! With success !

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04-12-2015 03:11 AM  34 months agoPost 34
rcflyerheli

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Yep, when you are an old dog, it's hard to learn new tricks.

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
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04-12-2015 03:46 AM  34 months agoPost 35
Cobra 46

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Even my old tricks seem weak now !!

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04-12-2015 04:54 AM  34 months agoPost 36
EEngineer

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TX

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You must re-package them so they're once new again....

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Fbl control question
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