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HelicopterLow Head Speed Helicopters › lower head speed Trex 700e
03-14-2015 05:57 PM  3 years agoPost 1
gcm2

rrApprentice

Ft Worth, TX

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I'm not approaching 10 minutes or anything, but here's my most recent testing, after following turboomni's suggestions.

I did fly on 6s and it was "OK" except my style of flying (not overly aggressive) was bogging it down, so I went back to 12s. BUT, I realized I've really had too high of a headspeed (I don't do smack 3d anyway), so I backed my throttle curve down to about 68-70% in 3D mode at 25% and 75% stick. Throttle before was about 78%. This effectively went from a 5 min 30 sec flight to 7 min! Which is just fine with me, and a cooler motor and ESC. The heli sounds cool - much less screaming motor noise, and more satisfying wup-wup-wup It does everything I want it to at the lower headspeed - I don't know what it is, maybe 1800? Don't get me wrong - it was a blast to fly at higher headspeed, but more responsive than my skills need

Funny thing: I tried about 65% and the tail overcorrected to nose right a little on some inverted climb outs and rainbows. This was aggravating, so I went back up to close to 70% and the problem went away. I "think" it may have been caused by "lower frequency" vibrations being picked up by my IKON. Don't know.

At this point, my 7 min flight is wonderful. It's very noticeably longer than I got used to...

TREX 700e, Goblins 500 & 570, DT520e, Gaui X3, Synergy E5

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03-14-2015 06:30 PM  3 years agoPost 2
DemetriusUSN

rrVeteran

Virginia Beach, Va USA

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This is what I just changed my 7hv to, I haven't flown it yet but the head speed numbers are in castles software.
Magnet Poles- 10

Motor Timing- 5 deg

Drive Freq-     12 khz

Motor Pinion- 14

Main Gear-     .127

 

               Head Speed

Normal- 1600

Idle 1-    1700

Idle 2-    1950

And gcm2, nice. I love the lower head speed stuff.

Minicopter Triabolo 700,Diabolo 800,Minicopter Diabolo 700, Minicopter 550,Compass 6hvu, Devil 380

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03-15-2015 01:22 AM  3 years agoPost 3
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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That's great GCM2 you got a set up that pleases you and gives you more flight time. One thing that you could try is if you are running a 12 t pinion you could try a smaller pinion like 11 or 10t pinion and up your throttle % for more efficiency. You might get abit more flight time.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-15-2015 03:39 AM  3 years agoPost 4
kthane

rrVeteran

Pensacola

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I run 1950 on my 700e and get 7 min off a 5000mah 12s pack. There isn't anything I can't do with that headspeed that I can do with 2150. Rocket headspeed for 5 min is pointless if the point is to practice!

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03-15-2015 04:06 AM  3 years agoPost 5
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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DemetriusUSN give us a full report on the maiden flight!

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-15-2015 04:16 AM  3 years agoPost 6
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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I run 1950 on my 700e and get 7 min off a 5000mah 12s pack. There isn't anything I can't do with that headspeed that I can do with 2150. Rocket headspeed for 5 min is pointless if the point is to practice!
I agree! You should try to see how low you can go and be satisfied and how much more run time you get.! There are many different solutions to satisfy many with Low Head Speed. Low Head Speed is anything below the max allowable before the blades explode I guess!

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-15-2015 05:55 PM  3 years agoPost 7
Sandor

rrNovice

Hungary

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Hey LHS guys!

Since I know this thread I am deeply inspired to build a LHS heli. I love the sound of the blades at low HS a lot. I am thankful to all of you for the knowledge and experience you shared here. It would really be quite difficult and risky to go on with a new LHS project without that knowledge.

I have an Aerodyne 600 size UH-1 N scale heli. Since the fuselage is larger than 600 size I put on SpinBlades 710 mm asymmetric main blades and I adjusted a lower headspeed to 1200 and 1300 RPM. I use 105 mm asymmetric tail blades. I replaced the old motor to a lower 450 KV Savox motor and wired it to 12 cells. Today I tried this 700 size configuration and works great. Later I will check the total flight time which I expect about 14-15 min. The motor, ESC and batteries are almost cold. The heli flies great, and it has a very lifelike blade noise at 1200-1300 RPM.

Hey LHS guys!

Since I know this thread I am deeply inspired to build a LHS heli. I love the sound of the blades at low HS a lot. I am thankful to all of you for the knowledge and experience you shared here. It would really be quite difficult and risky to go on with a new LHS project without that knowledge.

I have an Aerodyne 600 size UH-1 N scale heli. Since the fuselage is larger than 600 size I put on SpinBlades 710 mm asymmetric main blades and I adjusted a lower headspeed to 1200 and 1300 RPM. I use 105 mm asymmetric tail blades. I replaced the old motor to a lower 450 KV Savox motor and wired it to 12 cells. Today I tried this 700 size configuration and works great. Later I will check the total flight time which I expect about 14-15 min. The motor, ESC and batteries are almost cold. The heli flies great, and it has a very lifelike blade noise at 1200-1300 RPM.

The setup is the following:

Savox 5065 450 KV
12 S Lipo 2 x 5000 mAh
CC Ice HV 120 ESC
Gear:170/13 and 4,5 gear ratio for tail
Gryphon Quasar BEC
Helicommand Ridgid V2
Spinblades 710 mm asymmetric main blades
Spinblades 105 mm asymmetric tail blades
Flying weight: 6,5 kg

In the last few weeks I started to get the parts for another LHS heli. It will be a TREX 600 PRO with 700 size tail boom with the following setup:

KDE 600 XF 3G 530 KV
ESP gearing to get the 4,5 tail ratio
6 S Lipo 5000 mAh
CC Ice 100 ESC
CC BEC PRO
Helicommand 3SX
Spinblades 710 mm asymmetric main blades
Spinblades 105 mm asymmetric tail blades

My goal is to fly it at 1000-1200 RPM range.
As the Spinblades 105 mm Asymmetric tail blades work great with my UH-1 I will use them on the new heli, too. I can recommend them to everyone who use the TREX 600 PRO and had problems with the inefficient tail with the 3,85 gear ratio at low HS. I will use a higher landing skid and also a higher tail fin to keep the tail rotor high enough from the ground. In a few weeks I will have photos and video, and I will be pleased to share my experiences with you.

Sandor

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03-16-2015 03:05 AM  3 years agoPost 8
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Welcome Sandor to RunRyder! Very nice machine you have there in the picture. I would be very interested in both but especially your Align 600. I believe you can change out the tail gearing for a faster one. Another option is a 3 blade tail assembly. RC-tec in Nevada Usa makes one I believe. Also I have been curious about the asymmetric blades too and how much more lift to drag they are compared to symmetrical blades. Keep us posted.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-16-2015 10:35 AM  3 years agoPost 9
Sandor

rrNovice

Hungary

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Thanks for your kind words. Yes, I will change the tail gearing to the 4,5 ESP ratio. I read a lot about the tail issue of the ALIGN PRO so I just want to prevent it and bought the gearing for the higher 4,5 ratio. I thought it is a cheaper solution to have a new gearing than buying a 3 blade tail rotor with tail blades. I expect to do the maiden in about the end of April, so I will keep you posted about my experiences.

As for comparing the asymmetric and symmetric main blades, my experience is that if you run them on the same RPM and the same angle of attack the asymmetric blade always has more drag but significantly more lift. When you decrease the RPM the asymmetric blades become more efficient than the symmetric, the drag will be less but the lift will be still significantly more at the same angle of attack. To keep the drag on a lower level the asymmetric blades should be used with less angle of attack. On higher RPM the asymmetric blades start to lose the efficiency and the symmetric works better but the overall efficiency of the heli will be worse, because the higher the RPM the worse the overall efficiency is. So at low RPM the asymmetric blades are highly recommended especially for heavier scale helis. With reduced RPM the asymmetric blades will increase the flight time and of course the overall efficiency of the heli. All in all the asymmetric blades are more efficient in lower RPM.
The 710 mm Spinblades has an unusually wide 79 mm chord. These blades make a really very lifelike blade noise and of course good lift in low RPM. For me the sound of the heli is half of the fun.
For people who want to fly 3D in low RPM the symmetric blades can be better, but it is only a myth that asymmetric blades are not suitable for 3 D at all. They have only worse efficiency in reverse flying. However this is not an issue for me because I fly in scale style which I call sometimes as “agricultural style” so I never fly reversed.

Sandor

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03-17-2015 01:01 AM  3 years agoPost 10
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Interesting Sandor about the asymmetric blades. So it is possible to hover inverted with them ? I too like the sound of low head speed blades but have never seen or heard the asymmetric blades in person.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-17-2015 02:27 AM  3 years agoPost 11
gologo

rrKey Veteran

Sedalia, Mo USA

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Yes, Sandor, welcome! And some nice information there in your posts. Good
looking Huey!

To be honest, I believe LHS is what is keeping my interest up in the hobby
right now, so relaxing and scale-like........and still be able to do some
aero routines when the mood strikes. Best of both worlds!!

Glad to see another LHSpeeder to the forum

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03-17-2015 09:59 AM  3 years agoPost 12
Sandor

rrNovice

Hungary

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As for reverse hovering it is absolutely possible. Watch this video and you can see what possible with the asymmetric blades:

Watch at YouTube

You can find many companies to produce asymmetric blades if you like the LHS flying it worth to try and invest.

As I mentioned I am addicted by the sound of the heli, so this is why I became a LHS flyer.

Thank you Gologo, I feel the same: the LHS keeps me also in the hobby right now. It is especially addicting when you fly a scale heli with low HS.

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03-19-2015 02:27 AM  3 years agoPost 13
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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That is good proof that you can hover inverted with those blades but that is pretty high head speed too. I think they say 1900 head speed.
I wonder if you have to run more negative pitch than positive to make things equal? I also wonder if they make more drag inverted than upright??

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-19-2015 09:26 AM  3 years agoPost 14
Sandor

rrNovice

Hungary

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The video shows 3 D flying with high head spead. I just wanted to show you that it is possible to hover inverted with asymmetric blades. I am quite sure - but I never tried- that it is possible to hover inverted at LHS the only thing is that you probably should use more negative pitch on your stick when hovering inverted.

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03-19-2015 03:14 PM  3 years agoPost 15
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Thanks for posting the video. In the description it does say low head speed for duration or something like that. That is low head speed compared to 2500 i guess. Like Einstein said "everything is relative!"

I'd like to try a set of these asymmetric blades sometime. Maybe I will try and get a used set here in the classifieds on RR.
Thanks Sandor!

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-21-2015 05:53 PM  3 years agoPost 16
Sandor

rrNovice

Hungary

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Hi Guys,

Yesterday I flown my 700 size UH-1 heli to measure the flight time. The result was really surprising to me.

I put on a LiPo guard and adjusted to beep at 3,7 V. I flown for 17 minutes and the LiPo Guard still did not beep. I landed because I got tired. I discharged the batteries to 3,72 V and used 4425 mAh. I used two 5000 mAh LiPos in serial (12 cell).
I think it is possible to fly 18 minutes with this 12 cell configuration.
The RPM was 1200 and after 10 minutes I switched to 1300. The bird was absolutely handable. I tried the Spinblades 105 mm asymmetric tail blades and they are really very efficient.

Tomorrow I will check the ESC log to know the maximum Ampers. The motor, the batteries and the ESC were about body temperature.

Before the strech the heli had a 620 mm Spinblades main blade and at 1580 RPM on 2 pces of 5000 mAh in parallel (6 cell) flight time was 13,4 minute.

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03-28-2015 04:13 AM  3 years agoPost 17
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Hello Sandor,

17 minutes ??? WOW!! That's amazing especially since you stopped for other reasons than power! Which head speed did you prefer ,,1200 or 1300? Are you running asymmetric main blades too?

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-31-2015 11:29 AM  3 years agoPost 18
Sandor

rrNovice

Hungary

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When I start I use 1200 RPM and at the end of the flight when the batteries produce less power I switch to 1300. At 1200 the heli lifts very well with no tail issues. I always use the asymmetric blades.

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HelicopterLow Head Speed Helicopters › lower head speed Trex 700e
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