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HelicopterCentury Radikal G20-30 N640 Hawk Predator › Just finished rebuilding Raven 30, then it happpened..
12-20-2003 10:29 AM  13 years agoPost 1
TheWheelieKing

rrApprentice

Oakland, CA

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I had just finished checking my pitch setup (+10, 5.5, -10). I I took her outside and started her up. Fresh batteries (TX was at 10.8v, 2.5 month old gas last tank full out of the gallon. I was warming her up, 60 seconds into it, I move the pitch and my servos lockup or something. I look down and see the red power light blinking (Futaba 9chp 3001's, 9253+GY201). I stood and watched $350s and 20+ hours, on it's own go up about 4 feet, then drift 4 feet to one side hitting its nose then landing on the skids, breaking the right skid off (it was stock). Also, the 9253 had a ball link screw break off, and I lost the nut. It did not hit the blades on anything. I was so surprised at that.
After collecting myself and returning to the bench. I turned everything on and moved the servos for 15 minutes straight with nothing going wrong. I do not know what is wrong. I had crashed badly before this rebuild, I broke all the gears of the 3001's on the ccpm and the 9253 on the tail then. I replaced all (3 3001s & 1 9253) with new gearsets from Rick's (ordered on Sun got them today). I charged the tx and rx batteries the week before, with out using them, then charged them for the 5 hours (stock Futaba charger) as I was putting the new gears and the rest of the heli together. I only had the power on for 15-20 minutes before the crash, when it was on the bench. I, also, have a VoltMeter. When I was moving the servos (after near crash) the leds only went down to 1st yellow led.
Anyone have any idea what I need to look into. I don't want to start the Heli up untill I figure this out (It was 3 months waiting and saving for all the parts).

T][E \|/][EELiE Ki|\|G
("`-''- ").___--''"`-._
,`*_ * ) `-. (---_). `-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
,..`--'_..-_/ --- .' ,'
(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'
""------""----""

T][e\/\/][eeLieKi|\|g-{[Fly-or-Die]}-

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12-20-2003 10:41 AM  13 years agoPost 2
AGRAV8

rrProfessor

Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

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Servo's first

and then RX..... I had a servo going bad that did the same to me.......it didn;t draw enough to really show on the bench, but with engine running AND adding pitch, it sure did.....and cost me a set of blades.

The RX problem is harder to diagnose on the bench. I sugggest a dremel tool held against the case to tranfer vibrations.....a variable one is best.

Good luck on your quest. I would go servo's first.

You might consider the 3010 futaba servo's.....I have them in a 50 size ship, and have been very pleased with them.....and at 25 bucks a pop, they are not that expensive.

James

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12-20-2003 11:47 AM  13 years agoPost 3
Ray Fernandez

rrElite Veteran

Guam (U.S.A.)

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............also check the........

SWITCH.

Seems I have been hearing alot of crashes occuring because of the switch. You might want to check that first.

Ray Fernandez - GUAM

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12-20-2003 09:27 PM  13 years agoPost 4
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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sorry about your mishap !!,,, the only time I have had a servo reacted as you described was with a dead or very low battery pack, or a short in my system,,, or, your battery pack could be taking a charge but not holding the power/charge, I have seen fully charged battery packs check out OK on a Voltmeter only to be dead in 5 or 10 minutes, your pack could have been OK, but once in the air it could have went dead quickly....

Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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12-21-2003 01:18 AM  13 years agoPost 5
MG

rrKey Veteran

California

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TheWheelieKing,

You stated that your elecs were involved in a previous crash. I would strongly advise you to check the reciever, crystal, and perform a range check.

Time wasted = Life not lived to the fullest.

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12-21-2003 04:28 AM  13 years agoPost 6
Lift

rrElite Veteran

Houston, TX

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TheWheelieKing,
First off we need a little more info. But, I agree with MG totally. Did you bother to range check your heli after the repair? On ALL of my machines I walk off as far as possible to make sure that my system is operating beyond the norm. I always to try to range check to failure. What this means is that I walk till something goes wrong!(i.e HOLD on PCM or jitters on PPM) Then, I have a referrence as to what a normal working system's range should be. With this info when I rebuild from a crash I then see if I can get the same range. If not....then I stop right there!

Now, let me ask you a couple of questions for all our benefit in diagnosing:
1) PPM or PCM?
2) Whip antenna or regular?
3) Range check? If so, what range can you get?
4) Any equipment changed out other than gears?
5) ALL bolts properly installed and thread locked?(especially the one that joins the front radio tray to the lower metal frames!!)

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12-21-2003 06:31 AM  13 years agoPost 7
TheWheelieKing

rrApprentice

Oakland, CA

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NOPE, no range check...

I will go to my office and do a range check. Damn, I need two people. I will answer all other questions when I get there either in an hour or tomorrow night.

BTW what do I check on the switch or how?

T][e\/\/][eeLieKi|\|g-{[Fly-or-Die]}-

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12-21-2003 07:31 AM  13 years agoPost 8
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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naa, do this,,, put the antenna all the way down on your Tx,, set the Tx down on the table and walk away with the heli, if the servos start to jitter less than, say 60 steps you may want to question the system,,, my Tx is JR but my Rx are Hitec, rather JR or Hitec receivers's I could always walk some 70 to 80 steps (Tx antenna down) without the servos jittering...


Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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12-21-2003 07:46 AM  13 years agoPost 9
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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one more thing, I fly a plane off my JR 8103, I fly it well over 1000 away and never had a range problem, so I know the 70/80 step thing works for me...


Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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12-21-2003 07:47 AM  13 years agoPost 10
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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hee hee haa,,, OK

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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12-21-2003 08:34 AM  13 years agoPost 11
TheWheelieKing

rrApprentice

Oakland, CA

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Answers to Lifts questions...

Lift,

1) PPM
2) Regular Antenna
3) Will do that right now
4) I walked about 200 yards out (while I moved the cyclic non-stop and it was still working (I charged .the batteries for 6 hours prior to test.
5) yes

T][e\/\/][eeLieKi|\|g-{[Fly-or-Die]}-

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12-21-2003 05:54 PM  13 years agoPost 12
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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King,,, what size (mAh) is your Rx battery pack,,, I'm now thinking if it's a lower pack like 600 mAh it sure wasn't charged long enough...


Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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12-22-2003 12:25 AM  13 years agoPost 13
TheWheelieKing

rrApprentice

Oakland, CA

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RX Battery pack is a stock Futaba ni-cad..

I wrapped the battery in plastic then taped it up with electrical tape. I will have to take it apart, after this last attempt. Just another difference I remember, I have a hotter plug then before, it is now a enya #3 from a #5-#8. I put some outtrigger (pontoon) type gear. I am going out after a 15 hour charge on the RX and TX, wish me luck. (NOTE: I also did the dremel tool test no glitching.

T][e\/\/][eeLieKi|\|g-{[Fly-or-Die]}-

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12-22-2003 12:38 AM  13 years agoPost 14
TheWheelieKing

rrApprentice

Oakland, CA

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I was hovering...

To my astonishment, the collective is working backwards. I could not believe it. 4 feet in the air again and it slammed into the ground like before (BUT this time the pontoons saved me!!). BECAUSE of the collective being backwards. I move the left stick up and the swash plate moves up but the blades (front pointing in a clockwise rotation) point down. What is that? I mean the throttle is working correctly and I have made no radio changes.

(NOTE: the tail is waggin back and forth, like a dogs tail. I did put on stiffer black blades from century.)

T][e\/\/][eeLieKi|\|g-{[Fly-or-Die]}-

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12-22-2003 12:39 AM  13 years agoPost 15
TheWheelieKing

rrApprentice

Oakland, CA

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Oh my gawd....

The bell mixers are on backwards!!!! The grips are on the wrong way!!!

T][e\/\/][eeLieKi|\|g-{[Fly-or-Die]}-

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12-22-2003 12:41 AM  13 years agoPost 16
choppengruven

rrKey Veteran

Flagler County, FL USA

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The proper way to do a range check with a PPM system is:

A) Do a full range check with the ant. collapsed. Measure the distance.

and then


B)Start the heli with TX and RX on

Collapse the TX antenna

Walk slowly away from your heli with it at idle

Measure the distance. If it is less than 80% of your first distance, you have problems, likely with your RX.

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12-22-2003 01:21 AM  13 years agoPost 17
TheWheelieKing

rrApprentice

Oakland, CA

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I am an idiot, but at least I am a HAPPY idiot!

Thanks all for helping me in trying to figure this out. I hate user error, especially when I am THAT user.


MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY!!! I GOT MY CHRISTMAS WISH, WHICH WAS TO FLY BEFORE CHRISTMAS! I DID THAT JUST NOW!!!!! ONE TANK RIGHT AT SUNSET!!! THANKS RUNRYDER!!!

Life IS good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

T][e\/\/][eeLieKi|\|g-{[Fly-or-Die]}-

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12-22-2003 08:59 AM  13 years agoPost 18
dnts

rrVeteran

Israel

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That seems strange. In the first post you say you checked the pitch throughout the entire range. Didn't you notice that you had it backwards then?

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12-22-2003 02:57 PM  13 years agoPost 19
Lift

rrElite Veteran

Houston, TX

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WheelieKing,
Ok, well glad you got it sorted out. Merry Christmas!!!

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12-22-2003 11:49 PM  13 years agoPost 20
TheWheelieKing

rrApprentice

Oakland, CA

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Thanks again..

DNTS,

I did pitch check it and come to think about it i didnt look at + or -. I just looked at the numbers. It was like 1am when I did it. The loss of control was due to charging, well not charging the TX and RX battery long enough, and bench use prior to use.

LIFT,

Thank you for helping eveyone. I am looking up a tail wag problem I now have, and several of the fixes were pronounced by you! You are a very informative individual, keep on keeping on.

Merry Christmas to all!!!

T][e\/\/][eeLieKi|\|g-{[Fly-or-Die]}-

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HelicopterCentury Radikal G20-30 N640 Hawk Predator › Just finished rebuilding Raven 30, then it happpened..
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