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HelicopterCentury Radikal G20-30 N640 Hawk Predator › Increasing Tail Rotor Speed
12-20-2003 07:18 AM  13 years agoPost 1
Crashr30

Senior Heliman

DFW

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I noticed in an issue or two back of RCM the John Benario was working with Century on the Predator. In the article it was mentioned that he had changed a gear or gears in the tail rotor system to Increase tail rotor speed. Does anyone know the part number for this or has anyone actually made the conversion? Thanks

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12-20-2003 09:32 AM  13 years agoPost 2
Alistair

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no where land

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i know kam wyatt likes a very fast rotating tail... contact him. i would think that he could help you.

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12-21-2003 04:43 AM  13 years agoPost 3
Lift

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Houston, TX

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Crashr30,
I'm sure John can respond to your question much better but let me add something a little different.

John made that modification to his tail rotor because he likes to do aerobatic/3D autos. So, because of reduced headspeed(and hence lower tail rotor speed) he wanted to get the tail RPM's up so that those manuevers can be done with the tail staying put.

IMHO this is not necessary on the Predator given enough tail rotor pitch. It already has a higher tail rotor gear ratio than most of the other machines in it's class at 1:4.66 . The Fury has 1:4.33 if I'm not mistaken and it's tail system performs rather well! I do know that MA has an upgrade to bring the Fury up to 4.66 but I don't believe many are using it.

So what I'm getting at is why do you feel compelled to change it?

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12-21-2003 06:09 AM  13 years agoPost 4
Crashr30

Senior Heliman

DFW

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Funny you should ask

Payton, good to hear from you. I have had the pleasure of meeting you a couple of times at different funflies. You ask a good question and to be honest I have been having some troubles with the tail. Happily I finally got that all straightened out.
Part of the fun of the hobby for me is tinkering and this new Predator got a JR500T Gyro. Had some issues that turned out to be differences between 9Z and JR. (Most of my buddies fly JR so I am the lone 9Z guy). Once I made the radio changes all settled down. I was fighting severe wagging, like too much gain, but I did not have any real holding power in the tail. That was one reason I wanted to speed up the tail.
Second reason is my Vigor CS runs a 1:4.83 tail ratio. The tail has a very good power which I have gotten comfortable with over time.
And finally I do run a governor and I try to keep the head speed down in the 1750 range. At the time, before I sorted things out just today, I could get into high speed backwards flight and blow out the tail. So that was the thought process on all that.
I hope to make this my everyday machine now which means I will be trying some crazy autos before too long as well.
Take care.

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12-22-2003 04:46 PM  13 years agoPost 5
Crashr30

Senior Heliman

DFW

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Found the part

If anyone would be interested in increasing the tail rotor speed I did finally find the article and the part number was in the article. So I am a little embarrassed. The gears Benario is using are a Schluter part number S2932 and they have to be ordered from England as the importer does not bring these parts into the US. With these gears you would have a gear ratio of 1:4.91. Thanks.

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01-08-2004 04:26 PM  13 years agoPost 6
invrtd

Veteran

Victorville CA

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You can get these gears in the states.


See details S2932

TAIL GEARBOX RATIOS 1:4.92

http://robbeusa.com/xcart/customer/...&substring=2932

Take 40% off the price and that's what you will pay. About $25.00

I payed 20.00 pounds for mine plus shipping from the UK. It should be cheaper to get them from Paul at HUI.

Clark

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01-08-2004 05:18 PM  13 years agoPost 7
Lift

Elite Veteran

Houston, TX

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Crashr30,
I think I know what might be causing your tail to blow out. Now I don't know how fast your flying backwards but on my Max with the 601 the tail has yet to blow out and I have flown it as fast backwards as I can get it to go.

The one thing the 601 has the 500T does not is individual end point adjustments. This is helpful if you need more pitch one way than the other as the 500T just takes whatever you give on the short side and gives you same amount the other way. Not good if you have limited pitch to the left and your looking for more to the right.

Since the Century triple-bearing tail grips have three holes in them for ball placement you can choose which direction you want the most pitch. For me, I do most piro manuevers to the left(what lame-o ones I do:rolleyes so I have the ball on the hole closest to the tail case on both grips. Then, by the time I set my travel I have a pretty symetrical tail blade pitch and it acts fairly consistent both directions.

Now, if you are a very skilled pilot and your having problems with the tial no matter what gyro/setup tricks you have tried you can try my tail rotor pitch mod. It is listed on my website under the Raven 50 page.

The area on the Predator that we are looking at is tail pitch. IMHO(and I may get in trouble for saying this) if you are having tail holding problems in terminal velocity slides and ect. it is NOT associated with tail rotor speed. It is simply not enough pitch for the gyro to work with. I believe that any tail system with a combined pitch range of 120degrees(60L/60R) will perform flawlessly even at low rpms.

But, like I said I have yet to get the tail to blow out on my Max. Raven 50 yes but not the Max.

Hope this helps....

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01-08-2004 05:19 PM  13 years agoPost 8
Lift

Elite Veteran

Houston, TX

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BTW.....

I am currently trying out the G500T in my Raven and so far it pretty much shames the 401 IMHO. Very nice gyro for the $$$!

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01-08-2004 06:47 PM  13 years agoPost 9
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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for now

Crashr30,,, for now, till you get your tail gear upgrade, run thicker/wider and longer tail blades,,, I run wide 95mm long tail blades on my Falcon (need to, with the 60B and Weston tuned pipe), she finely holds on full stick climd-outs, with 15% nitro I run 11 degrees of pitch on top, I think I could pull close to 12 with 30%....


Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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