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HelicopterBeginners Corner › Basic hover pirouette - How?
12-19-2003 09:28 AM  13 years agoPost 1
kevinbuckley70

Senior Heliman

Oxfordshire, UK

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I searched RR but couldn't find an answer to this...

When the heli. hovers (tail-in) it tilts to the right to counteract the sideways force from the tail rotor.

If I want to do a pirouette, should I just apply yaw? Or do I need to level the heli. first?

Is a piro. stable? i.e. in calm air, even with some left, right, fore or aft cyclic applied will it stay in one place?

Regards, Kevin

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12-19-2003 11:24 AM  13 years agoPost 2
Al Magaloff

rrMaster

12,199 Posts- Enough Time Wasted. See Ya!

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Kevin, If you want to do "uncontrolled" piros, just climb up some, and add the yaw. If you want to do nice, slow, controlled stuff, you will need to learn to hover in all four orientations. That is tail in, nose in, left facing, and right facing. Then, you can piro slowly, at eye level, and REALLY impress the ladies!

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12-19-2003 01:02 PM  13 years agoPost 3
helimechanic

Senior Heliman

Surrey, England, UK.

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If your heli is well set up and has a stable hover you will have no problems. Start well out and a little high as this will ad to your confidence.
To start, leave the cyclic alone and just use rudder control to bring te tail around in one smooth swift motion. You will notice the heli will lose or gain height as you may well have accidentaly adjusted some pitch during the stick movement. The heli should stay reasonably in one place. If not, then some cyclic adjustment when tail in will keep things in control. Then keep doing this until you are confident in left and right pirouettes. Once you are you can slow things down.
Just don't panic half way through, keep it running till you are tail in again and make initial corrections then.

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12-20-2003 11:04 AM  13 years agoPost 4
TOSH

Elite Veteran

UK.Peterborough

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Hi Kev.

Looking at the helis in your profile l would guess they are not just going to sit there while you do a slow piro(in fact l can`t think of one that would).You will need to master side on and nose in first.Trying them with a slow climb will help.

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12-20-2003 01:22 PM  13 years agoPost 5
Helimex

Senior Heliman

Oklahoma

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This may sound a little reckless but what the hell. I too was wondering about the how to's of pirouettes so I gained a little altitude and just slammed the rudder to the stop! The heli gained a few feet of altitude but spun around pretty nicely in what I thought was a controlled manner. After that first experience, the rest of the piro's I did required a little tweaking to make them look smooth and graceful but there were no unexpected surprises. Fear and uncertainty of the unexpected gone. I don't necessarily recommend you do it this way but if you do, be sure you start the piro in a stable stationary hover. Good luck.

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12-20-2003 03:16 PM  13 years agoPost 6
rcheliflyer

Key Veteran

calif., usa

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This may sound a little reckless but what the hell. I too was wondering about the how to's of pirouettes so I gained a little altitude and just slammed the rudder to the stop!
Just had a flashback ,
when I first tried hovering piros I did that, not quite to the stop I made it a few times, then in front of a crowd of onlookers I lost it and it went in.
The worst part was that besides damaging the heli it busted the heck
out of my training gear

Get up high work on the steady hover, turning the heli a bit more
each way then back, soon it will be all the way around, if there's a prob
return to tail in / gain some alt and recover.
A good entry / position always helps any manuver you do,
make sure to have that before attempting new stuff, later you'll
be able to get away with more, a lot more
Some heli's can piro without getting to far out of whack, but then others
can get out of kilter fast, and get you in trouble.

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12-21-2003 11:17 PM  13 years agoPost 7
MJWS

Key Veteran

Airdrie, AB - Canada

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Heh,

Gotta admit to the Helimex method myself.

The fast ones are easy. I found they gave me the confidence that I would always be able to get to my bailout when I started the slow controlled piro's.

Having a clear escape plan has saved my heli more times than I can count. Of course burning it into the subconciousness on the sim is probably the next best piece of advice I ever got here.

Good Luck! I know nothing puts a bigger smile on my face than nailing a new trick.

Mike

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12-21-2003 11:56 PM  13 years agoPost 8
Peefor

Veteran

Norfolk UK

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I'll might get blasted......but I think a slow pirouette is one of the hardest things to master. (I'm still working at it!)

Hold the heli tail-in in one place. Then rotate 90 degrees, so you are now hovering sideways in the same place. Rotate back to where you started from. Then go the other way.

When you are happy with the sideways hovers creep a little bit past the 90 degrees each time you turn. The aim is to be completely happy nose in. Then practice some more, each time stopping at the 90 degree point, both clockwise and anticlock.

The last thing to do to is join the 4 little twists into one complete turn, always trying to keep in the same place. And don't get handed!

HTH

Pete

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12-22-2003 08:39 AM  13 years agoPost 9
Minor Problem

Senior Heliman

Isle of Wight, UK

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Not like me eh Pete!?

James Bond doesn't have to put up with this sort of sh*t...

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12-22-2003 07:28 PM  13 years agoPost 10
Peefor

Veteran

Norfolk UK

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B

Some of us can *talk* a good manoeuvre.

Pete

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12-23-2003 08:15 PM  13 years agoPost 11
w.pasman

Elite Veteran

Netherlands

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A piro is not stable, It's easy to see, because the heli will be slanted in the wrong direction after 180degrees of jaw and is not counteracting the tail push force anymore but instead helping it.

Thus, if you do slow piro, you need cyclic corrections. But if you do it quick enough in low-wind conditions the heli will only start to drift a bit.

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12-23-2003 08:45 PM  13 years agoPost 12
vaportrail OLD

Senior Heliman

Anchorage, Alaska

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Actually, the orientation of the heli to the pilot has nothing to do with the tail thrust compensation. If you tilt the heli to the left (tail in), it will still be tilted to the left after a 180. Well, left relative to the heli. That is what matters. What (seems) to happen is the torque changes because the tail is either loaded or unloaded and the fuse reacts to this. Add any breeze and you have just enough to cause the heli to wander. The slower you go, the more these factors seem to work. Slow piros are HARD.


The real point of terrorism is not the act itself, but our reaction to the act.

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12-23-2003 11:16 PM  13 years agoPost 13
kevinbuckley70

Senior Heliman

Oxfordshire, UK

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I assumed a fast, ongoing piro. would not slide into the ground because any cyclic imbalances average out every 360 degrees. So whilst it might drift, or describe more like a doughnut than a circle, it should stay airborne.

Is that correct? I haven't had the nerve to try it!

Regards, Kevin

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12-23-2003 11:25 PM  13 years agoPost 14
vaportrail OLD

Senior Heliman

Anchorage, Alaska

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Fast piros are FUN! In low wind, they don't drift much. But be ready for when you stop My x-cell blurs on piros. I am just getting the hang of slow piros. It is great practice for orientation.

Just start out high and away from you. That way you will have room to roam.

chuck


The real point of terrorism is not the act itself, but our reaction to the act.

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12-25-2003 12:48 PM  13 years agoPost 15
Vinnie

Senior Heliman

Miami Beach, Florida

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Instructions

Well since no one answered the question, I will answer it.

Note that during a full pirouette, the helicopter passes through four orientations:

- tail in
- left side
- nose in
- right side

For a slow pirouette, you apply a cyclic correction when the helicopter is at exactly one of the positions mentioned above. For tail-in and nose-in orientations, you apply aileron correction (left or right cyclic). During the left side and right side orientations, you apply elevator correction.

This is done so that you can easily see what correction needs to be applied. For example, when you are looking at the left or right side it is easy to see if the nose is too high or too low, therefore an elevator compensation is the easiest to apply.

When you have mastered the slow pirouette, you will come to realize that your stick movements on the cyclic roughly resemble a circle. Parts of the circle will be stretched or shrunk depending on the amount of compensation that needs to be applied.

Once you have learned to pirouette in place with constant altitude, you can start to move the helicopter around while pirouetting by adjusting corrections based on the direction you want to move. Lets ay you want to fly in a straight line from the left side of the field to the right side. During each phase of orientation while pirouetting, you would apply a larger cyclic input. For example:

- tail-in: a little more right cyclic
- left side: a little more back elevator
- nose-in: a little more left cyclic
- right side: a little more forward elevator

Once you have learned to move the helicopter in a straight line while pirouetting, you can start on more variations. For example, pirouetting while traveling in a (safe distance) circle around the pilot. Pirouetting while moving in a circle away from the pilot.

These "cyclic circles" become helpful when performing advanced aerobatics, like pirouetting loops, etc...

Happy pirouetting!

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12-26-2003 05:25 PM  13 years agoPost 16
vaportrail OLD

Senior Heliman

Anchorage, Alaska

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Thanks Vinnie!

That is the best bit of flying instruction I have seen in a long time.

Chuck


The real point of terrorism is not the act itself, but our reaction to the act.

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12-26-2003 05:54 PM  13 years agoPost 17
MJWS

Key Veteran

Airdrie, AB - Canada

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Vinnie

Thanks for an excellent explanation. The light just went on here for connecting the different types of piro flight to slow piros. You really simplified it for me.

Gotta go pratice.

Mike

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12-27-2003 03:13 AM  13 years agoPost 18
pistole

Veteran

Heli Land ....

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I fly mode 1. Therefore , slow piros are very hard to do.

Mode 2 flyers have it easier with the cyclics all on one stick.

Sheeeesh.

Nice write up Vinnie.

I have a vid of Alan Szabo Jr doing a Sunday Flight in the So Cal Classic 2003. He starts off his routine with an eye level , blindingly fast piro that goes on for almost 10-15 seconds ........ the heli does not move an inch anywhere. Nice to see what the top guys can do with their machines.

Rap70. TT70.Rap50. TT50.RD8000.

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12-27-2003 12:33 PM  13 years agoPost 19
Drunk Monk

rrProfessor

Preston, UK

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I've seen that clip too, very impressive. I'm amazed how his raptor just sits, rock solid while spinning. How does he get it so well balanced??


Stephen

I only open my mouth to change feet.....

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12-28-2003 04:43 PM  13 years agoPost 20
ô¿ô

Heliman

USA

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If you ever stood next to him while he's doing that you would see the quickness in his right hand on the cyclic input that it takes to do that. Its a blur, but there is an input going on all the time.

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HelicopterBeginners Corner › Basic hover pirouette - How?
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