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HelicopterMain Discussion › My Raptor 30 V1 keeps exploding!
12-18-2003 01:19 AM  13 years agoPost 1
S_Owen

rrApprentice

Wichita Falls, TX.

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Geez guys, I don't know what the heck is going on! Damn thing just explodes! I am totally serious. 1 foot off the ground and BOOM, parts go everywhere!

Here's the story...........

I had it sitting on the table to mount up a new muffler on the OS 32, a Youngblood MPII. Well the damn thing got knocked of the table. Bent the flybar all up and busted off a double link. So, I put a new spindle, flybar, paddles, balls on the grips, and new double links on it. It didn't have blades on it at the time. The next day I took it out. I run a mild head-speed in idle one, about 1650. Well, I got about a foot up and the whole thing starting wobbling violently and then BANG, tail strike. The whole thing just exploded in a one foot hover!

Back to the bench. That really scared me so I replaced the entire head (even the bearings), mainshaft, and the main bearings. I should have got the V2 head but I wasn't thinking. The tail was almost a total loss also. I got it all back together and tracked the blades in the back yard.

I tried to fly it again a week later, the same thing happened but I was quick enough to get it down without incident. Again, just as procedure, I replaced the mainshaft and spindle.

Today I tried to fly her again. I can't get the thing more than six inches of the ground before it starts. I have a good stock of parts so I replaced every link and rod in the system. I tried yet another brand new spindle and dampers. Yet with all this, it still happens. The sun set on me jacking with this wounded bird and I am about ready to can the thing.

I have tried 3 different sets of blades, all are balanced and have been flown before.

I can't find any slop in anything except maybe the blade grips. They have about 1mm of slack in every direction. They have always been that way, the new ones and the old ones, and it's always flown fine.

So come on guys....what in the world is going on? I am doing nothing more than throwing parts at a problem I don't understand.

[b]Murphy's Constant:[/b] Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value.

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12-18-2003 01:26 AM  13 years agoPost 2
JonMann

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Concord, CA

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the "Raptor Dance" could also be cause by the throttle/pitch curves, try to take some pitch out of it as you spin it up.

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12-18-2003 01:41 AM  13 years agoPost 3
S_Owen

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Wichita Falls, TX.

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I have not tried silicone oil but I will first thing tomorrow. How much and where on the dampers? How does that help?

I have been from one end to the other with my curves.

[b]Murphy's Constant:[/b] Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value.

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12-18-2003 01:48 AM  13 years agoPost 4
Har

rrApprentice

Springfield MO

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Has this machine ran/flown before?? Has it been running like this since the MP2?? Have you adjusted your mixture for the MP2??

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12-18-2003 01:48 AM  13 years agoPost 5
Heli genius

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Hong Kong

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1) You have to check the head speed at hovering. Pitch curve may be ok but what about throttle curve? they work together.

2) How tight of the blades mounted on the blade grip? If it is too loose, wobbling will happen

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12-18-2003 02:05 AM  13 years agoPost 6
bdg1r1

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Austin

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check the blades and blade grips

What kind of blades are you running????If you are running Wood's, balance youre blades??????
Also, when tighting you grips try the bounce test( hold the heli on it's side, and shake it up and down the blades should move very little if at all.)
R
Brad

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12-18-2003 02:35 AM  13 years agoPost 7
novanuttz

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Tucson, Arizona

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What blades do you have?
Mavricks?

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12-18-2003 02:51 AM  13 years agoPost 8
S_Owen

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Wichita Falls, TX.

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Har - Flew fine before. I tuned as best I can without being able to hover/fly.

Heli genius - I've been all over the place with my curves, pitch and throttle. 1400-2000, same issue.
2)Blades are plenty tight though I have tried various levels of tightness/loosenes while diagnosing this problem. No difference.

bdg1r1 - Carbon, Glass, and Wood all balanced with a Koll Rotor Pro. Same problems with all. I always do the bounce test though I'll usually tighten them up a little more after the first FF of the day. Can't quite get that far right now but I have tried all different tightnesses to no avail.

novanuttz - Mavrikk's, FHP's, TT Woodies. Every set has been in the air before on this same heli w/no problems

So now do you all see why I am so confused??

[b]Murphy's Constant:[/b] Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value.

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12-18-2003 02:56 AM  13 years agoPost 9
rcmike

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Dickson, TN

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What happens before it explodes? Do the blades go way out of track? It could be the notorious "woof and poof."

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12-18-2003 02:59 AM  13 years agoPost 10
hercules

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Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania - USA

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A friend of mine had a hair line fracture around the lower main shaft bearing in the frame. Couldn't see it unless you split the frames and tried to twist the one half. When he let go the fracture disapeared like it wasn't even there. The result was the same as yours before he found it. It may be worth a look. By the way, he never crashed it before that.

Good luck!

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12-18-2003 03:08 AM  13 years agoPost 11
S_Owen

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Wichita Falls, TX.

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Out of track. Well, I would have to say no. At least not out of track like I have ever seen.

I did just realize something though. If you MAX out the pitch settings in G2 and then try to do a full pitch climb out, the blades start doing this flapping business right before the heli crashes in the middle of the clear sky and then falls to the earth. That flapping business is almost EXACTLY what it looks like except 1 foot off the ground and +5 degrees pitch!

It spools up great, no vibration at all. It lifts off smooth as silk. Shortly after it starts to wobble. If I don't set it down RIGHT THEN.........BOOOOOOM!

hercules Wouldn't that make some tremendous noise as the gears were rocking back and fourth? Seems to me it would make some serious racket as the pinion gear made/lost contact.

[b]Murphy's Constant:[/b] Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value.

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12-18-2003 03:15 AM  13 years agoPost 12
HelicopterJohn

rrKey Veteran

Seffner, Florida (Just East of Tampa, Florida)

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Blade Grips

Did you replace the blade grips?

I would replace them if you haven't. I saw a Raptor 30 once that was having tracking issues. We replaced the blade grips and the associated inner and outer bearings and it fixed the problem.

The V1's blade grips have a bit of slop in them. Some will fly forever with the slop and not give any problems. Others on a given day will stop being cooperative and give tracking issues.

P.S. Make sure your thrust bearings are installed correctly in the blade grips. Check the manual for the correct installation. The thrust bearings have different size inner and outer holes. If they are not correctly installed they will cause issues.

A friend of mine suggested putting a "small" amount of epoxy on the outer diameter of the bearings when installing the bearing into the blade grips. He says that will tighten them up and the helicopter will fly better. Be careful on the amount of epoxy so you don't get glue in the bearing races.

Another thing to check is the screws that hold the balls on the end of the blade grip that attach to the double links. Sometimes when you crash it will bend the screws and cause blade tracking issues.

Just some things you might want to check.

Hope one of these suggestions help.

OC Bob's Gathering #2 was a Premiere Event. Pictures in my Gallery

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12-18-2003 03:20 AM  13 years agoPost 13
Har

rrApprentice

Springfield MO

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Hmmm have you checked with the old muffler installed, and have you looked at the clutch for cracks? When you say 5degrees of pitch where in relation is you throtle? Do you hover at 3/4 stick, thus throtle being about 70%?

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12-18-2003 03:28 AM  13 years agoPost 14
S_Owen

rrApprentice

Wichita Falls, TX.

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HelicopterJohn - Yeah, I replaced the grips, balls and screws, and all of the bearings. The epoxy idea seems sound though.

I installed the thrust bearings correctly (small hole always goes closest to the blade).

I think I will try the epoxy idea. It seems there is some slack between the bearings and the grip. What grease would you recommend seeing how the bearings will probably never see light again.

I am also going to lube the dampers although I don't know how that will help.

I am also going to throw my tracking blades on it again and go over it one more time. Sure seemed dead-on the last FIVE TIMES I checked it but I think I'll do it again just to be sure.

Har - Actually, funny thing about that clutch.....it broke today, but I had a heavy duty on hand to replace it with, no change. Putting the old muffler (Mavrikk) back on was one of the very first things I tried. Something is broke somewhere but I sure can't find it. I think I am going to have to do a total tear down and check everything. You watch, it'll end up being something stupid I just have caught $150.00 ago.

[b]Murphy's Constant:[/b] Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value.

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12-18-2003 03:40 AM  13 years agoPost 15
LannieBaker

rrApprentice

moultrie GA

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when my heli was doing what your describing it was the maverick 600mm blades causing it, but if you say your blades are ok the n silicon the dampners. what that does is tightin up the play between the feathering shaft and the damps and your blades should quit going out of track.

oh yeah, the screw that your ball goes on in your blade grips could be bent also causing this prob.

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12-18-2003 04:01 AM  13 years agoPost 16
hercules

rrApprentice

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania - USA

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raptor_newbie,

I remember it well because I wish I would have had a video camera. Although it was dangerous and expensive, I got to admit it was pretty cool to see! As for the sound...Nothing out of the norm. It spooled up fairly smooth with no indication of anything wrong. Got about a foot off the ground and thats all she wrote. He took it apart, replaced broken parts, and tried again. Same thing happened without a crash this time, just heavy wobbling. Took it apart again and in the process accidently put pressure on one of the frames and it showed itself. Replaced the frame and never happened again.

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12-18-2003 04:05 AM  13 years agoPost 17
Phoenix1

rrNovice

Bonita Springs, FL

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I would take all the parts you have taken off your raptor when replacing them with new parts AND build a new one. Sounds like you may be able to build more than one.

I am no expert, but I suggest you do a search for the grip flip modification and try that. It sounds like woof and poof.

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12-18-2003 04:07 AM  13 years agoPost 18
greg

rrKey Veteran

Yorkville, IL

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Empty the ash tray.

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12-18-2003 04:08 AM  13 years agoPost 19
hercules

rrApprentice

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania - USA

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Phoenix1,

I'm assuming you did the grip mod. If so, did it work and tighten up the play in the grips?

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12-18-2003 04:11 AM  13 years agoPost 20
Phoenix1

rrNovice

Bonita Springs, FL

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hercules,

No, I did not, never had a need to. But from talking to people who have had that woof and poof, this was the answer. I dont think it tightens up the play, but when the pushrod leads the blade instead of following it, it seems that the blades are less likely to go balistic.

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HelicopterMain Discussion › My Raptor 30 V1 keeps exploding!
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