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Scorpion Power ProModeler
HelicopterMain Discussion › Is there any decent fuel produced in the UK??
12-16-2003 06:13 PM  13 years agoPost 21
nivlek

rrProfessor

Norfolk England

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I've tried pink stuff, blue stuff , green stuff , red stuff and amber stuff.
My favorite is model technics supaglo which is 16% synthetic and 4%
castor.Using a infra red temperature gun to test engine temperature,
my engines (mostly O.S.) run as cool or cooler on this fuel as on the
more fashionable brews.
As to oil content on Prosynth 2000, as Weston UK would not tell me
the oil content of the fuel , a member of my local club , who is an industrial chemist, said he would do an analysis of the fuel for me.
I duly gave him a sample of my Prosynth 2000 10% nitro.He explained
that by boiling off all the methanol and nitro all that would be left would
be oil and any anti foaming agents etc.His conclusion, after duplicating
his testing, was that the oil content (including anti foaming agents etc)
was 17.5% by WEIGHT.Assuming that oil is heavier than methanol
or nitro then the oil content by volume will be lower than 17.5%.

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12-16-2003 06:27 PM  13 years agoPost 22
w.pasman

rrElite Veteran

Netherlands

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Mixing your own is cheaper but you will not end up with a fuel as consistent, pure and well mixed.
Why do you think so? I know exactly how much I put in of everything, so my self mixed stuff is consistent. And I work quick, very clean and use good stuff (nitro 99.8% pure), so pure as well. Well mixed? This stuff dissolves good and why would some good shaking be insufficient?

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12-17-2003 08:58 AM  13 years agoPost 23
Dan C

rrApprentice

Barnsley, Yorkshire

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I was under the impression that the major suppliers of the materials used eg methanol and nitromethane were not keen on selling small quantities but I do understand the prices are cheaper if you can get

eg £4 a gallon for methanol
eg £47 a gallon for nitromethane

these are approx prices taken from a methanol powered drag racers web who was buying by the 44 gallon drums

As for the lubricants I am not sure where you could purchase it outside the model industry eg direct from model technics or the like so unless you can use a high quality synth 2 stroke lubricant but how would that work in a methanol based fuel rather than a petrol based fuel.

If I could get a reliable source of these materials and not have to buy it huge quantites (I would feel uneasy having 40 odd gallons of nitromethane in a the garden shed)

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12-17-2003 12:41 PM  13 years agoPost 24
leadlag

rrVeteran

Worthing UK

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Thanks Mark for the offer,
I am running a OS50 with zimmerman muffler in a rappy and a OS 91 C spec mp2 in a Fury Tempest.
I am just running in the OS 91 C spec and using my last cool power this weekend in preperation of trying the Beckra.

Nivlek, how long have run this brew? Caster is a good lubricant but because of the rich mixture run in helis i think you will find it will eventually clog up your muffler/pip and cause back pressure which might mean you will have to throw away you muffler/pipe and purchase a new one if you cant get it apart to decoke it.What colour is your mufflers/pipes after running a few galllons through?

w.pasman i dont doubt you abillities to mix a good brew Just for my own piece of mind i like the idea that model technics/morgans go through the process of testing the raw materials,all the ingredient being carefully metered in a air free enviroment and then molecularly blended with very little or no chance of moisture getting in.
Also the fact as a Firefighter i dont fancy mixing it in my one bedroom flat.
Could cause a potentially embaressing situation.

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12-17-2003 06:21 PM  13 years agoPost 25
nivlek

rrProfessor

Norfolk England

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Leadlag,
I've used supaglo for six or seven years.I have only got stains on
my exhaust systems when I've spilt fuel on them when fueling up
and not cleaning it off before flying.I've never had any problem with
engines or exhausts coking up.
As you rightly say the Helimix has only 15% oil (the same synthetic
as in supaglo) and I also think this is a little low but, this summer I
went to the RC Hotel in Corfu, and I was suprised to find that the heli
fleet was run on Helimix 10%.Even in the heat in Corfu, the engines
all ran fine with no sign of overheating, so perhaps 15% oil is enough
if its the right oil.

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12-19-2003 12:10 AM  13 years agoPost 26
leadlag

rrVeteran

Worthing UK

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nivlek,
the reason i said that i because i know a cuple of people that have used fuel with castor in it have ended up with the forementioned problem. I know that when people use formula irvine which uses a kloth synthetic oil with a bit of cator you end up with a brown muffler.
Is there different types of castor?

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12-19-2003 12:12 AM  13 years agoPost 27
leadlag

rrVeteran

Worthing UK

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Sorry for the print errors in the last post

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12-19-2003 03:23 PM  13 years agoPost 28
nivlek

rrProfessor

Norfolk England

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Leadlag,
Both formula Irvine and supaglo are made by Model Technics, so I would have thought would have the same grade of castor.One thing
that does happen with supaglo in my fixed wing machines is that it
does a pretty good job as a paint stripper!It might be this strong detergent effect that prevents things from coking up.The other point
is that I use a low nitro content , which in turn allows me to run a little
leaner.By low I mean 5%.I do on occasion use 10%, but only if I need
fuel and that is all that is available at the shop.I really can't tell
any difference in performance between the 5% or 10%.I did run
a SC36 in a Spacebaron on supaglo straight for a whole season
with no problems.
How much nitro do you run?If you want to keep your fuel costs down
you could always drop your nitro content by 5%, that should save three
quid a gallon and you may not notice any performance drop.

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12-20-2003 02:26 PM  13 years agoPost 29
G4YVM

rrApprentice

Salisbury, Wilts. England.

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I have run gallons of coolpower, prosynth contest 10 and bekra 10. FWIW, the Prosynth is ****e, makes the engines rasp and run hot. But it is clean.

The coolpower is expensive. The contest 10 is fine. The bekra 10 is a straightforward replacement for coolpower IMHO. I get on really well with the Bekra. Nice stuff.

D

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12-21-2003 03:29 PM  13 years agoPost 30
leadlag

rrVeteran

Worthing UK

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Nivlek,
It does sound to me like there are detergents preventing the burnt castor from coking the engine.With formula irvine over a long period of time i coked up a zimmerman muffler.
Different engines are designed to run on different levels of nitro. Here in Europe we tend to run lower nitro levels because of the cost implications and so have compression ratios to suite.
I find that 10% nitro is perfect for my needs. My satio four strokes,OS heli and plank engines all run very well on it.
I did used to run Irvine 5 % for many years but the four strokes tend to run and tick over better on the 10% also i find i dont have to adjust the mixture as often for climatic changes with 10%.
G4YM,
I thought the same of Westons liquid gold when using it in planks so was put of there Pro Synth.
Beckra is waiting to be put in once this wind stops blowing!

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12-21-2003 05:25 PM  13 years agoPost 31
RotarSoft

rrVeteran

St Leonards On Sea UK

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Leadlag,

I can't really say about the 50 as I don't have a model at the moment with an OS 50 in it. However the 91 I can give some advice on!

I'm running a completely stock C-spec in my Vigor CS with 8.4:1 gear ratio and the MPII. With an OS8 plug and Bekra 16 fuel these are my needle settings:

Idle - About 2 o'clock position.. fine tune as per requirements.
Main needle - Just under 1 1/2 turns open.. start at 1 1/2 and work your way in SLOWLY
Mid range - 3/4 turn.

Now these settings were from when it was a bit warmer.. so you may need to change them slightly.. but not significantly.

Hope it runs well for you!

Cheers

Mark

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12-21-2003 09:37 PM  13 years agoPost 32
RotorHead486

rrKey Veteran

England

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Bekra Fuel

Hey leadlag,

IMHO go with the Bekra, as Dan C said i used to fly coolpower 10% in my machines, them being a Raptor 30 V1 with an OS 32 with zimmermann muffler and a Millennium MKII with an Os 61 SXH WC on a Zimmermann 60 quiet pipe.

I found i got good power and clean running from using coolpower but found my engines ran a little hot and i have buggered 2 engines up using coolpower, one being an Enya 35X in my first heli a nexus 30, this was ran on duraglo for a couple of years but when i upgraded my heli i refitted the engine into the Raptor 30 which i continued to run on duraglo but changed to coolpower when i got my millennium, this engine "Popped it's Clogs" after about 2 gallons of coolpower.

The OS 32 replacement has had about 1 years running on coolpower and was a superb little motor when i found out that running coolpower requires more attention to needle settings, you can lean and lean an engine on coolpower and it will still run. The OS 32 died earlier this year after being abused in my R30, piston scored needed liner and ring replaced and crankchaft bearings were showing signs of wear, decided to just buy a new engine, this one has been run on Bekra 10% from day 1 with no problems what so ever, it is a little bit more dirty than coolpower but i see that as a good thing as the engine is getting well oiled!

My Millennium is currently running on Coolpower 10% with an MT M3 plug but it has got the Wah Wah's which i can't seem to sort so i am going to switch to Bekra and bung an OS A5 plug in it, also got a new X-Cell Fury 60 Expert with an OS 70 SZH (Upgraded) which is also getting Bekra 10% and an OS A5 in it.

Go with the Bekra, Good Stuff!

With regards to warranty cover with fuel choices, i have been in contact with irvine who upgraded my OS 70 and they said that warranty will be void if coolpower or a fuel with less than 18% is used, Model Technics have upgraded the mix in the Bekra Mix, 15% was the original oil content and 18% is the new mix. Don't know about the colour though, they said telling the mixes apart is difficult as the last batch of fuel i got from them as part of the bulk buy deal Dan C was telling you about was very pale in colour compared to last gallon of fuel i was running at the time, they said it was just a colour change in the oils which happens from time to time.

Cheers! Hope you are happy with the Bekra
Rotorhead486

One Reason For Crashing'Rogue Servo Bent on World Domination'!!
FLP Flight Team

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12-23-2003 10:41 AM  13 years agoPost 33
leadlag

rrVeteran

Worthing UK

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Thanks Mark,that gives me a good idea of where to start looking.Wish it would stop raining and blowing a gale!Still getting some practise time on the sim


RotorHead486,I do expect the Beckra to be a little bit more messy due to the klotz oil content as it tends to be thicker.
As far as the cool power goes i always thought it was great stuff.Set it up and pretty much leave it alone and all my engines run at nice steady temperature. I'm sorry to here that your engines have come a cropper but do you think your mixture might of been to lean?
Alot of synthetic blends do not offer the same protection on a lean run as a brew with a bit of castor in it. Thats why (formula irvine to name one) have a little bit in there to offer a bit of extra protection.
If you run a engine on total synthetic and you let the engine run too hot then alot of the oil burns off and you can have problems.
I always make sure i have plenty of smoke and i can touch the crankcase after a good fly around.
How do you set your mixture when running in?

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12-23-2003 10:43 AM  13 years agoPost 34
RotarSoft

rrVeteran

St Leonards On Sea UK

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Leadlag

The Bekra mix has a special blend of oils to cater for lean runs.. just in case.. it's 100% synthetic oil but protects your engine in a lean run like good ol Castor.

Cheers

Mark

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12-23-2003 12:02 PM  13 years agoPost 35
w.pasman

rrElite Veteran

Netherlands

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Prosynth 2000 - as far as I understood it the Carbulin factory stopped, and someone else started producing the stuff under the name Prosynth 2000. So P2000 should be equal to Carbulin. Can someone confirm this? As carbulin used to have a few percent of castor (3%?) I suppose P2000 has that too.

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12-23-2003 08:20 PM  13 years agoPost 36
leadlag

rrVeteran

Worthing UK

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Mark,
how much were you involved with bekra's development?I know it is a blend of EDL and klotz. What is the thinking behind combining the two lubricants?

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12-23-2003 09:53 PM  13 years agoPost 37
RotarSoft

rrVeteran

St Leonards On Sea UK

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Leadlag,

I wasn't involved in any of the delvelopment for the Bekra fuel.. well.. thats a slight lie..

Originally I ran Formula Irvine fuel.. because back in those days it was the best fuel you could buy in the UK!

But I didn't like the castor in the Irvine fuel and got Model Technics to make me pure 100% synthetic Klotz fuel at 30% Nitro with varying amounts of oil.. I think I settled on 20% oil in the end..

I ran this for ages and I think Model Technics even sold some as Christy 30% mix.. then Bekra R/C decided that the UK should have a fuel as good as Coolpower and offered to help model technics develop my blend further.

In the end Bekra and his associated chemists came up with a completely new "brew" of fuel.. I was given some to try and I haven't used anything else since.

However.. be careful in reading the Model Technics website.. where it says that it contains EDL is true... but not at the same time.. you see EDL here has a compleletly different meaning to the oil E.D.L. I think I was put under strict instructions not to say what it stands for... but it's not E.D.L oil!

Cheers

Mark

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12-23-2003 10:24 PM  13 years agoPost 38
WMac

rrVeteran

Skotlande

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Electromagnetic Distillation Liquid ?

Will


Beep Beep! One Road Travel, with Dominic Byrne!

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12-23-2003 10:41 PM  13 years agoPost 39
RotarSoft

rrVeteran

St Leonards On Sea UK

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Will,

Haha.. good guess.. but it's not the answer..

It has something to do with the lubricants involved.. and lots of them

Cheers

Mark

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12-23-2003 11:49 PM  13 years agoPost 40
WMac

rrVeteran

Skotlande

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Extremely Dense Lubricant?

Exfoliating Dog Lather?

Extracted Dead Lutefish?

Extended Duration Laxitive?

Extra Destructive Lemmings?

Will


Beep Beep! One Road Travel, with Dominic Byrne!

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Scorpion Power ProModeler
HelicopterMain Discussion › Is there any decent fuel produced in the UK??
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