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HelicopterOff Topics › Saddam Captured
12-15-2003 08:48 PM  13 years agoPost 101
scouse

rrApprentice

UK Liverpool

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We have loads of coal and oil too and crops and timber but we get it elsewhere because its cheaper

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12-15-2003 09:21 PM  13 years agoPost 102
spaceman spiff

rrKey Veteran

Tucson

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noname,

Just having a littel fun, actually i didn't like the way it was being sold by Bush either, but there are a couple things worthy of consideration. For example the uranium refining equipment that had been disassembled and buried in scientist back yards, the chemical/bio missiles that were found before and after the war, the disgiused moble bio labs, and the hateful retoric that was being broadcast to manipulate people all demonstrate intent.

I would have prefered that the war wait till afganistan was stable. it is a tricky job to take goups of tribes that hate each other so much and make them a harmonious country, i wold have prefered that we prove that that can be done, before taking on iraq, but the sanctions that were being placed on Iraq over the past decade were really takinga toll on the public and not accomplishing what they were intended to do so i have to admit time was running out for peacefull options.. Just opinion.

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12-15-2003 10:17 PM  13 years agoPost 103
ChrisW

rrApprentice

Bonsall, CA

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I know I'll regret getting in this...

...but I find it disgusting that people outside the US accuse Americans of not knowing the "facts". ...But remember our "facts" are given to us by a free media, (the majority of which tends to be on the more liberal side of American politics IMHO), but FREE none the less. Most of the "facts" y'all (yes, I'm an American redneck) are throwing out against us are from what?...Your government subsidized media?

While I don't agree with many people in my country on political, social, etc. views...You can count on one thing from me and millions of other Americans, I/we would gladly give our lives to defend the freedom to express those views...even to defend the freedoms of somebody here as "guest" of our country... It is not about the individual, citizen or not, but the ideal. If the ideal is allowed to erode we become a society ruled by who can instill the most fear.

While I personally abhore the political views of people like Sen. Hillary Clinton and would hate to see her (or someone like her) elected to the Presidency...If she was to be elected, I could spend the next 4 years without one moment of fear of retribution for not agreeing with the "party in power". Again, I & millions of other Americans would give our lives to defend this country and its interests, even if I disagree with it's leaders....Again, it is about the ideal of FREEDOM not individuals.

The oil argument is ridiculous...Why should we spend a Trillion to get billions in oil? If we are so economically motivated, I would think the simple math would make all the BS in the Middle East a very poor investment....I believe it is more about the American ideal, not the money (or oil).

The problem is that unless you grew up within (and protected by) this American ideal...You would probably have trouble wrapping your mind around the concept of "Freedom to pursue life, liberty and pursuit of happiness".

...and yes...the vast majority of Americans are from immigrant roots...That is what makes our country great. ...Yes we have had many things wrong in the good ol' USA...slavery for one... We literally tore our country in half over that issue about 140 years ago. I can show you graves of my ancestors who gave their lives on both sides of that issue. Slavery is no longer in America since that "Civil" war...It does unfortuantely still exist in many parts of the world.
...but we have continually strived to improve our society...and have been pretty successful over time.

We must be doing something right...The lines to get in this country are a lot longer than those wishing to leave. (and anybody has the freedom to leave anytime they want)

I'm getting dizzy up here on the soapbox, so I digress...
-ChrisW

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12-15-2003 10:26 PM  13 years agoPost 104
daggit

rrElite Veteran

Claremont, MN

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ahhh forget it... best not talk politics or religion, can't change anybodys' mind over the internet.

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12-15-2003 10:34 PM  13 years agoPost 105
z11355

rrMaster

New England

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they'll always be pissed because they
hate themselves so look to strike out
at anyone they can beside looking in
the mirror and pulling themselves
out of the 12th century.

All the culture respects is power and
force. All the people who think
negotiation will work do not understand
the first thing.

They need to be intensely humiliated.

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12-15-2003 10:54 PM  13 years agoPost 106
hercules

rrApprentice

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania - USA

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Well said ChrisW! I am trying to sit out of this debate as long as I can because I can't believe that capturing Saddam, like so many other great things, has been once again used to launch another anti-American shot! I think I am safe in saying that the troops(all troops regaurdless of their country of origin) in Iraq would much rather hear, "thank you for getting rid of such an evil man and giving Iraq the chance for freedom!" I'm going to shut up now and wait till I can't stand it anymore.

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12-15-2003 11:05 PM  13 years agoPost 107
spaceman spiff

rrKey Veteran

Tucson

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dagit, no disrespect, but i am convinced if we live in issolation the quality of ideas and ideals tends to deteriorate. For example take some of the weird groups here in the states; holy rollers, neo nazis, and several others. Their ideas they have are way off in left field, but they continue to believe weird things because they issolate themselves from those who think differently, and have brainwashed themselves into assuming everyone else is 100% wrong.


Chalanging perspectives is a very healthy thing, and there is no easier way to get it than on the internet. i had honestly hoped to have a meaningfull discussion with m&m, but he only wanted to spin people up with insults and rethoric and not honestly and respectfully compare perspectives.

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12-15-2003 11:11 PM  13 years agoPost 108
Jim C

rrVeteran

PA

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We the US needs to cut off funds to ALL the people in the middle eastern region we have been supporting for MANY years and who obviously don't appreciate it. I for one and tired of working my ASS off to give all this money away to people who do not appreciate the sacrifices we in the US make for them.
isnt that what i said earlier?? hehehehe glad someone thinks along the same lines as i do.. i was beginning to think i was the only one!
i had honestly hoped to have a meaningfull discussion with m&m, but he only wanted to spin people up with insults and rethoric and not honestly and respectfully compare perspectives
LOL what were you thinking?? that has a snowballs chance in hell of happening!

jim

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12-15-2003 11:46 PM  13 years agoPost 109
spaceman spiff

rrKey Veteran

Tucson

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Snowbals chance? maybe a littel better than that.

I travel a lot, and have had a lot of exposure to people who think differently. I was in germany a couple weeks after the war started. had some trense discussions with some of the folks there, at first some of them treated me with contempt, but in most cases after a littel carefully measured discussion it was not a big problem, and i think both i and they benefitted from it.

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12-15-2003 11:47 PM  13 years agoPost 110
helidog

rrApprentice

usa

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Like I have said before in a post that was started at the same time the war started.

Plain and simple.
We are the USA. You are either for us or against us.
If you are against us you are our ENEMY.
If you are for us we will stand with you when you need us.

That’s it
End of discussion.


When you find a perfect world let us all know
When you find a perfect government , It will never happen.

I would add more to this post but why waste my time.
USA is always the ass hole of the world ((( until you need us )))

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12-16-2003 12:17 AM  13 years agoPost 111
Hivoltage

rrApprentice

Ohio

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Hey m&m, you should go preach to somebody that wants to hear your anti-USA crap.......and this is not that place I dont believe.

I have found that most of us heli pilots in the USA, for some reason seem to be pertty tight group of patriotic, down to earth people. Take your history lesson somewhere else.

I think what really Piss** me off was using the words "American soldier deaths"...... and "thats nothing" in the same sentence.!!!!!

I Dont Have No Stink'in Signature

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12-16-2003 12:28 AM  13 years agoPost 112
Hivoltage

rrApprentice

Ohio

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And I was talking to you....so I guess its too late to Butt Out!! You should have PM'd him if you wanted me to butt out!!

I Dont Have No Stink'in Signature

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12-16-2003 12:29 AM  13 years agoPost 113
spaceman spiff

rrKey Veteran

Tucson

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Hi m&m

"saddam and osama where created by the US and now we all have to pay the price."

Are you saying we should have let russia kill Osama? maybe you can explain how would you have handled the situation?

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12-16-2003 12:33 AM  13 years agoPost 114
Woody218

rrVeteran

Bismarck, ND

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m&m

If the mideast is so damn great, why are you here for 35 years? You ungrateful S.O.B.!! You live in this country, and then you have the gall to badmouth the USA.
The mideast countries hate us because we are successful, and they are not. To blame the USA for all their ills is a crock of crap, and a denial of reality. Why is Israel not entitled to exist? There needs to be SOME place in the mideast that's got it's sh*t together. Face it, if it wasn't Israel, it would be something else. You guys just like to fight and bitch. If you're not fighting the Jews, you're fighting one another


Gravity Always Wins!

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12-16-2003 12:43 AM  13 years agoPost 115
Hivoltage

rrApprentice

Ohio

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Woodie....been watching the news ( I know you are) , they are over there blowing each other up right now with car bombs!!!

Them people are so stupid that if SOMEBODY didnt interfere, they would just kill each other off.!!!! They learned it from Sadam, so I guess that is our fault.!!

I Dont Have No Stink'in Signature

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12-16-2003 12:45 AM  13 years agoPost 116
spaceman spiff

rrKey Veteran

Tucson

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maybe it is better to discuss by PM?

i would not be suprized that hatred will continue for many years. Even the crusades (a bad idea BTW) from several hundred years ago is a sore issue even though the US didn't exsist then.

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12-16-2003 12:46 AM  13 years agoPost 117
Woody218

rrVeteran

Bismarck, ND

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Hell, why not? Like I posted earlier, if they can't fight some Jews, they do the next best thing and go after one another.

Are you SURE we didn't invent a time machine, go back in time, and start the Crusades? We must have, EVERYTHING is our fault.


Gravity Always Wins!

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12-16-2003 12:57 AM  13 years agoPost 118
Isaiahsdad

rrApprentice

Midwest City, Oklahoma

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These questions are for m&m;

1) Do you hate America

2) Are you an American

3) Do you vote in the pesidential elections if you are an American

4) Why do you live in America

simple questions and something tells me you won't answer all of them

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12-16-2003 01:00 AM  13 years agoPost 119
spaceman spiff

rrKey Veteran

Tucson

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My point about the crusades is as long as there is intense hate it will always find an excuse to justify itself.

The US also has bases in Japan, Germany, Italy(?)... none of them hate us for it. Why is having a presence in the gulf such an issue?

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12-16-2003 01:05 AM  13 years agoPost 120
spaceman spiff

rrKey Veteran

Tucson

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Guys, please don't chase him off.

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