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HelicopterMain Discussion › At IRCHA....Belts Alive
08-24-2014 11:25 AM  3 years agoPost 21
Retired2011

rrElite Veteran

Lee's Summit, MO

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I have yet to crash a belt drive heli that required any parts except a tail boom to repair.
No gears to strip or TT and bearings to replace, usually even the tail blades survive, no belts have needed replacing yet.

Much easier for me...wish my TDR and Synergy had a belt.

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08-24-2014 01:00 PM  3 years agoPost 22
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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Gary recently posted some very interesting information on belt drive testing Hirobo conducted here:

https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/...4/?p=6351180#RR

This year's IRCHA Speed Cup winner, Miles Dunkel, won using a belt driven minicopter Diabolo-S.

  

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08-24-2014 01:53 PM  3 years agoPost 23
Jerry K

rrKey Veteran

Houston Area

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I have run both systems but one thought comes to mind how do you predict the usable life of a belt? The TT has basically an indefinitly life until it is interrupted by the ground. With the belt I am sure it doesn't have an indefinite life of which will be effected by meetings with the ground. So even though it was not destroyed in a crash when will it be replaced due to service life issues.

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08-24-2014 02:22 PM  3 years agoPost 24
870heli

rrVeteran

Monson Ma. USA

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I have EVO's with belts that have been flying for eight years. I have worn out the ball links on some but never replaced a belt. I think I have never used my spare belt.
I never got why anyone wanted a TT set up. I have several but prefer a belt.
870Heli

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08-24-2014 03:03 PM  3 years agoPost 25
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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I have run both systems but one thought comes to mind how do you predict the usable life of a belt?
Many of the belts in use that I've seen are manufactured by Bando, a large industrial supplier of belts. These belts see a lot more run-time in industry than they do in our helis.

IMHO belts are a lot easier to inspect than a TT system.

Bando also has this:

V-Belt and Timing Belt Installation and Maintenance

http://www.bandousa.com/html/pdfs/vbelt_timingbelt.pdf

  

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08-24-2014 03:51 PM  3 years agoPost 26
JasonJ

rrKey Veteran

North Idaho

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Since it was shown a zillion years ago that there is almost no efficiency difference between tt and belt when at operating speed I prefer tt for the more basic reason: laziness. I crash rarely so crashing is not a factor in my decisions. Instead it's ease of use. I fly year around and adjusting the belt for different temps while not difficult was still inconvenient. Can't store it inside with a belt adjusted for 30 degree temps and you can't fly it in 30 degree weather with it adjusted for inside temps. I embraced tt for convenience. Now a helicopter with an auto tensioner would give me the same convenience so I would certainly own that helicopter.

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08-24-2014 04:34 PM  3 years agoPost 27
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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I guess that's the main reason I used to be more a fan of the belt years ago. They would last forever but as my flying got more aggressive, then more things would turn up.
Even the whole adjustment thing wasn't really necessary back then, just wasn't that critical an adjustment. As time progressed, it became more critical though. It depends on a lot of factors really.

The worst kind of belt failure, IMO, is when the tension chords get stretched on one side. There is no visible sign looking at the belt but it'll not track well and wind up walking off a pulley and possibly get jammed up in some idlers.

Again, I'm on the fence with a slight lean toward TT but things like self adjusting idlers and larger pulley diameters is starting to sway me back.

Team POP Secret

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08-24-2014 04:58 PM  3 years agoPost 28
Four Stroker

rrElite Veteran

Atlanta

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Ace Dude;

Not sure what to apply from your document to our heli belts. The major cause of belt failure that I have seen is excessive belt tension. On a TREX 600N I push the belt over with my finger in the back round hole gently until it stops. I go for a say 4 mm gap with the other side. My belts last forever - many hundreds of flights. So Hirobo's not too tight or loose needs some explaining. Hirobo also tested fans long ago!

Nobody at my field will believe that belts are more efficient.

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08-24-2014 06:20 PM  3 years agoPost 29
BobOD

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New York- USA

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You don't want to compare to just any industry. Yes, belts last a very very long time in many industrial apps. But if you designed like some helis are in certain industries, you'd be given a pat on the head and sent home.
For good service life, the minimum pulley diameter for an XL belt is 14 tooth I believe. And any pulley touching the back side of the belt should be 30mm or bigger. These are rarely followed. If you were to design a belt system to "last forever", it would wind up a bit bigger and more complex.
Now, if you're not pushing it, then it's kind of a moot point. But, todays power systems are definitely capable of pushing it.

Team POP Secret

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08-24-2014 08:16 PM  3 years agoPost 30
gcm2

rrApprentice

Ft Worth, TX

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Allz I know is... after 2 "little teeney weeny" tail bounces on the ground with my Trex 550e that stripped out the front TT drive gear that is next to impossible to replace, I did the Align parts conversion to belt drive.

After this conversion, I had a bad wreck which crumpled the tail boom and tore the belt. Cheap and easy to fix

AND, I'm very happy the stock Goblin 500 comes belt drive, thank you very much.

TREX 700e, Goblins 500 & 570, DT520e, Gaui X3, Synergy E5

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08-25-2014 12:18 AM  3 years agoPost 31
Retired2011

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Lee's Summit, MO

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I'm probably too lazy to do it correctly, but I NEVER adjust a belt after initial setup...
Hot or cold, lose or tight, it is what it is and has not been a problem for me!

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08-25-2014 01:32 AM  3 years agoPost 32
JEEPWORLD2002/2

rrKey Veteran

Blue Bell, Pa

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I do like the ease if setting up a tt over belt ESP when it 50 deg out and I want to fly with out sliding the boom but I do like how I can dig a trench with the tail on a belt one little dip into sand n my front tt gears are a mess one down fall per each system ??? = 6 in one half dozen 6 in the other ???

Trex600n,Trex500,MR25,MikadoLoGo5003d/KDE,Goblin 380XNova,CastleCreations,Ys,JR XG8,Tags Mini XBus Dmss//FAA# FA3NYC9TAP

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08-25-2014 02:33 AM  3 years agoPost 33
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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I am considering try/doing the belt conversion on my 600n for crash costs, savings about half price.

not that I have problems with TT

spending time, paying attention

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08-25-2014 03:50 AM  3 years agoPost 34
JEEPWORLD2002/2

rrKey Veteran

Blue Bell, Pa

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Well do t know if your interested I got a plastic version belt for 600n but u may choose to go metal but if you interested I think it's got like ten flights on it I upgraded to metal after like 10 flight for bling

Trex600n,Trex500,MR25,MikadoLoGo5003d/KDE,Goblin 380XNova,CastleCreations,Ys,JR XG8,Tags Mini XBus Dmss//FAA# FA3NYC9TAP

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08-25-2014 04:54 AM  3 years agoPost 35
JasonJ

rrKey Veteran

North Idaho

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"Nobody at my field will believe that belts are more efficient."

Yeah that doesn't make them right just because they don't believe it. Hand spinning a rotor as a tool for comparison like so many do is not an accurate means to judge the efficiencies of one over the other. There are other parasitic loses that tt encounter when at flying speed. All those bearings and gears create more drag as speeds increase. In the end I feel they both put very likely the same power to the tail with very similar losses At Speed.

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08-25-2014 11:43 AM  3 years agoPost 36
rpat

rrElite Veteran

Weirton, W. Va.

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Bottom line on all of this...is our helis are so overpowered today that it really doesn't matter except on paper like what we are doing right here.
BELTS- simple , amateurish, cheap!!!
Torque tube- professional, expensive !!!
OH and I still prefer Orville over POP

trex 700fbl cal30,minititan,, trx600fbl,trex250,logo 500,Velocity N2

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08-25-2014 03:11 PM  3 years agoPost 37
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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Ohhh....go buy another heli would ya.

Team POP Secret

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08-25-2014 11:18 PM  3 years agoPost 38
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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crash cost for a belted tail is about half of t/t, the way I see it.
And if belts used a gallon of fuel extra over t/t during the models life, I believe I would still be ahead.

spending time, paying attention

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08-26-2014 12:06 AM  3 years agoPost 39
Retired2011

rrElite Veteran

Lee's Summit, MO

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Torque tube- professional, expensive !!!
Professional??? surely you're kidding...

All of the high end helis are going to, or already run, belt drive tails, especially the speed machines.

Seems to me belts are the more professional choice!

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08-26-2014 12:09 AM  3 years agoPost 40
Retired2011

rrElite Veteran

Lee's Summit, MO

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OH and I still prefer Orville over POP
Act II is my favorite.

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HelicopterMain Discussion › At IRCHA....Belts Alive
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