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HelicopterMain Discussion › At IRCHA....Belts Alive
08-22-2014 04:49 PM  3 years agoPost 1
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Years ago I was a big fan of the belt. It is good to see it having a comeback. Lots of belted tails now and prominent in the competitions as well.

I wasn't there but it seems so based on all the information made available by those kind enough to share it with those of us who could not make it.

Team POP Secret

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08-22-2014 04:58 PM  3 years agoPost 2
whirlyspud

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USA

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All this time and I never knew they went anywhere.

Mike

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08-22-2014 06:30 PM  3 years agoPost 3
fastflyer20

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N. Tonawanda, NY

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True, none of my belt driven heli's died at IRCHA

Tom
CAUTION - my posts are based on my experiences, yours may be different.

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08-22-2014 07:43 PM  3 years agoPost 4
BobOD

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Oh no, never dead. I agree. Just trending back up.

Team POP Secret

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08-22-2014 08:00 PM  3 years agoPost 5
Carey Shurley

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Orlando, FL - USA

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but you would probably agree, the t/r belt systems common today are quite different than the original ones in terms of efficiency (other than they still have pulleys and a belt).

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08-22-2014 08:27 PM  3 years agoPost 6
Andy from Sandy

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Bedfordshire, UK

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Perhaps Belts Dead would of got Ronald in a right old flap! lol.

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08-22-2014 08:56 PM  3 years agoPost 7
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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belts are for pants not heli's

spending time, paying attention

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08-23-2014 03:10 AM  3 years agoPost 8
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Good one. LOL

Yes Carey, there have been some nice improvements over the last few years.

Team POP Secret

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08-23-2014 12:11 PM  3 years agoPost 9
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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Are there any examples of how belts have improved?

just curious

spending time, paying attention

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08-23-2014 12:26 PM  3 years agoPost 10
Retired2011

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Lee's Summit, MO

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I wish all of my helis had belts!

After now owning a few TT tails, a belt drive tail will be an important factor in any future purchases.

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08-23-2014 01:07 PM  3 years agoPost 11
rpat

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Weirton, W. Va.

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OK I will bite on why one would want a belt today. I don't see how there could be any big improvement in efficiency. who ever made that statement better get up to the plate and tell me how they are more efficient than say five years ago.

trex 700fbl cal30,minititan,, trx600fbl,trex250,logo 500,Velocity N2

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08-23-2014 01:40 PM  3 years agoPost 12
BobOD

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I'll give you one. Larger pulleys = lower tension in the belt. Belt stretch and contraction is one of the primary losses.

Team POP Secret

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08-23-2014 02:27 PM  3 years agoPost 13
Carey Shurley

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Orlando, FL - USA

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I don't see how there could be any big improvement in efficiency. who ever made that statement better get up to the plate and tell me how they are more efficient than say five years ago.
hopefully this isn't going to turn into a calculus lesson about power transfer

you might note that I said since the "original ones". The reputation of belt drive systems goes back a very long way and a lot has changed.

to Bobs point, the pulleys especially the ones at the back are much larger than the used to be.

I think the increased engagement areas on these made all the other improvements possible. If you compare a newer system, like that of a goblin to a much older system you would see on the newer system:
  1. smaller belt cogs - less individual contact area
  2. because of the larger pulleys, the belts don't have to bend as much
  3. thinner belts (because of the smaller cogs) - more flexible, easier to bend
  4. less tension required
  5. self adjusting tension devices
if you compared the drag of an old t/r belt system (say one on the original Hirobo Shuttle) to that of say a modern day Goblin, it would be like night and day

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08-23-2014 03:53 PM  3 years agoPost 14
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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When I recently built my E550, I rerereminded myself how much I like a belt.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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08-23-2014 04:08 PM  3 years agoPost 15
Ace Dude

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USA

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I've always liked belts. I started in the hobby with Shuttle ZXX and think it was a good 10+ years later before I had my first TT machine.

  

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08-24-2014 01:33 AM  3 years agoPost 16
BobOD

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New York- USA

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I'm on the fence....tending to prefer TT a little more. It seems most people do prefer TT these days but the trend seems to be going the other way again. Thanks mostly to SAB IMO. Not that they are first on many of the improvements, certainly not, but they are bringing it on.

Team POP Secret

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08-24-2014 02:06 AM  3 years agoPost 17
rpat

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Weirton, W. Va.

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I still remember seeing my first TT, it was on my budddys evo. There was a breeze that day and the mains were turning in the breeze. I was amazed thaat the blades would turn in a breeze because of the less friction on the drive system.

trex 700fbl cal30,minititan,, trx600fbl,trex250,logo 500,Velocity N2

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08-24-2014 02:18 AM  3 years agoPost 18
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Yes, but how much power does that take away. A lot of times it's pretty insignificant. I'll give you a classic example. Most in this hobby wouldn't think of using a rubber sealed bearing on the main shaft because you can feel the resistance.
Now put that bearing on an arbor and spin the id at 3000 RPM and just touch the OD with your pinky finger. How much power does it take to stop it? Perhaps enough to add a microsecond to an auto? Maybe.
But, most people would not consider using such a bearing...one that actually keeps grease in and dirt out. LOL

Now don't get excited. You won't see such a thing. Because the manufacturers and distributors will just get tired of hearing, "But it's hard to turn".
You're much more likely to see a ceramic bearing there...which, of course, is completely useless.

Team POP Secret

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08-24-2014 02:28 AM  3 years agoPost 19
Retired2011

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Lee's Summit, MO

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I could care less about the miniscule difference in efficiencies of either system...

I like the belt drive because of the less expensive and easier crash repairs.

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08-24-2014 03:00 AM  3 years agoPost 20
BobOD

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New York- USA

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I can put together a complete tail section in about 10 minutes, belt or TT, so ease isn't going to sway me one way or the other.

As for cost, belts can be pretty expensive for what you get. But, this is about the least expensive of all my hobbies.

There are pros and cons either way you go.

Team POP Secret

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HelicopterMain Discussion › At IRCHA....Belts Alive
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