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HelicopterAerobatic FAI F3C F3N Contest › F3N Competition flying
08-21-2014 02:50 PM  3 years agoPost 1
jomerrNovice - Stockholm, Sweden - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Here comes a film I made about F3N competition flying featuring Kim Jensen as the speaker.

This course was held earlier this year in Trollhättan, Sweden, at "Gränscupen". Thats a F3N/F3C competition open to pilots from Finland, Norway, Denmark and Sweden.

Watch at YouTube

Happy flying.
Johan Mellin



- A good solution can always be improved -

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12-01-2014 12:41 AM  3 years agoPost 2
Aaron29

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USA

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Great video. Really lays out what precision is.

I just love this style of competition.

Probably even more than I used to like watching 3DM.

It's a shame there's no U.S. presence in F3N. XFC Known Maneuvers is the closest thing. But IMO, XFC is watered down from a precision perspective, not only from a now very low relative K factor for Known Maneuvers, but also by having unspecific judging criteria for Known Maneuvers and even less clear criteria for Freestyle and Smackdown.

This watering down turns it into just another mashout bashout. My opinion, of course.

I see little value in judging anything "freestyle." A sufficiently good pilot can toss a model around from incomplete/incorrect maneuver to incomplete/incorrect maneuver, turning one mistake into the beginning of something else. Can avoid weak spots in maneuvers or even botched maneuvers by just not finishing them. Just "freestyle" it out. With few observing being the wiser. Can't do that when you MUST finish the maneuver.

With music, you can judge freestyle on choreography, fit, etc. So I see some value there.

But overall, it's set maneuvers precision that sets apart the men from boys, IMO.

And it's F3N that demands precision to specificity.

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12-01-2014 01:48 AM  3 years agoPost 3
Aaron29

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USA

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Wish we saw F3N here.

Seems in America, we shun competitions to be champions in our own minds. You know, better to fake it through banging the sticks at IRCHA than compete in an F3N event and fail to demonstrate the level of control these guys have. I'm no exception. My local club thinks I fly great, but I'd get my arse handed to me at an F3N event, because it's a whole nother level. You aren't going to pull one over on judges like you will a typical crowd.

Even if I'm never up to par to compete at F3N, this video gives me some ideas of how I could improve my flying overall.

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12-01-2014 06:51 AM  3 years agoPost 4
Tool Man Vegas

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Las Vegas, Nevada, U.S.A

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Great video. F3c is a great. I would love to compete. Someone please start some F3c in the USA.

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12-01-2014 02:19 PM  3 years agoPost 5
Aaron29

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USA

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Well this video was about F3N, but I agree that F3C could used increased presence.

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12-01-2014 03:49 PM  3 years agoPost 6
Steve Graham

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Denver, CO

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Thanks Johan,

Kim does a great job. He's obviously got a great deal of experience with this subject. Still you can see just how difficult evaluation can be when it comes to precision flying. I've done a fair amount of this with IMAC for scale aerobatic planes. IMAC has a fairly large group of participants in the U.S. so they have benefited from a lot of time donated by people trying to advance the SIG. There will always be people who once they get to a certain level of proficiency start asking themselves "what's the best way I can elevate my flying to the next level?" For me competing with like minded individuals especially in an area that has well developed standards is one of the very best ways to grow your skill set. Hopefully as the helicopter crowd continues to grow in size and overall skill level we will see more interest in competition.

The biggest drawback I see with competition is, and I think Kim alluded to this, people begin to take the matter far too seriously to the point that they get aggravated with themselves and others, judges, and people start to avoid them because of the negativity. These people often drop out because they forgot the reason they began competing in the first place was to elevate their flying. At that point I think it starts to resemble golf and a recalibration of priorities is in order.

"If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong!"

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02-06-2015 11:51 PM  3 years agoPost 7
kej

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Denmark

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Thank you very much Johan for making the video!
For an un-commercial format like F3N, such things make a difference.

You are very right, Steve.
For most of us, a format's biggest potential, should be to guide us to become better pilots.

Unlike some, I am lucky to appreciate all the formats I have come across.
For example:
3D Masters (3DX format managed by Jeff Baringer) has more than anyone, created something that we travelled far to experience together!
The 'feeling' and mood of 3D Masters in North Hampton evening field has never been surpassed in my book. Simply awesome!
Here we recognised Daniel Jeltsin did 2way chaos in awesome style, and we 'gave birth' to Tareq and many others awesome pilots.
Similar, HeliMasters offers incredible management by Christoph Dietrich, who offers awesome events with a very professional team.
Several others should be mentioned in this connection!

That being said, F3N must be respected for being the format, which avoids making crowd appeal and/or sponsor appeal being a main part of it's foundation. That also means, it will probably never be the biggest format out there.
It's sport 'purity', is kept in focus by Dag from Norway, Tobias Schulz and several others. That is a good thing.

When pilots like Nick Maxwell put big efforts into F3C, it is not because the manouvres are basicly difficult for them in any way, but because the things the judges look for in that format, are very hard to ever master.
F3N is aiming for something similar, but with 3D in mind.

Kim Jensen

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02-07-2015 11:58 PM  3 years agoPost 8
Krister T

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Sweden

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Great video Johan but it was even better to be at site and also seeing the manouvers been flown at the competition. Thanks Kim for doing this event a year back.
Hope to see you this at gränscupen in may.

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03-06-2015 12:00 PM  3 years agoPost 9
jome

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Stockholm, Sweden

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Thanks, it's nice to hear someone out there is finding the material i posted useful.

I'll try to find the time to put together the F3C film also.



- A good solution can always be improved -

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03-06-2015 02:12 PM  3 years agoPost 10
Ace Dude

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USA

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Great job Johan! An F3C film would great!

  

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03-27-2015 05:17 PM  3 years agoPost 11
jome

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Stockholm, Sweden

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Have looked at the material from the F3C judges course now.

The raw material is, well it's looong 1h28m

It covers a lot, almost all parts of the two schedules.
The cutting process will be hard and a lot have to go.

So lets have a poll!
How long can it be for anyone to actually find time to watch it :P



- A good solution can always be improved -

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03-27-2015 05:30 PM  3 years agoPost 12
Aaron29

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USA

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I think 20-30 minutes is a good range. Depending upon what the objectives of the video are.

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03-27-2015 10:30 PM  3 years agoPost 13
Ace Dude

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USA

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In the big scope of things, 1.5 hours isn't that big of a deal. Many folks travel 12+ hours one way to just to complete in our NATS event.

  

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03-28-2015 02:42 AM  3 years agoPost 14
RGG

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--

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1.5 hours is not unreasonable for a good educational video. I'd find the time to watch it. Plus, if you don't have much time, you don't necessarily have to watch it all in one sitting.

Ralph

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03-29-2015 02:29 AM  3 years agoPost 15
Robert "Full" Montee

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Fredericksburg, Virginia

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I'd say I'm interested in seeing it.
I'm sitting here binge watching Netflix while building heli #2.

Robert "Full" Montee | Team Synergy | Team Futaba

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03-30-2015 08:27 AM  3 years agoPost 16
jome

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Stockholm, Sweden

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Alright, I've got the range from 20 min to 90 min.

I think that I could remove a lot of "non informative" stuff and still get it down to 40-60 min. Then maybe a "teaser" version for the very busy people :P

Ok, we'll see how this pans out.



- A good solution can always be improved -

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03-06-2016 02:55 AM  27 months agoPost 17
Synergy333

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USA

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Did this video ever finish?

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02-12-2017 06:24 AM  15 months agoPost 18
Xtreme Heli

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Houston, Texas

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Competition Flying
From Steve Graham
The biggest drawback I see with competition is, and I think Kim alluded to this, people begin to take the matter far too seriously to the point that they get aggravated with themselves and others, judges, and people start to avoid them because of the negativity. These people often drop out because they forgot the reason they began competing in the first place was to elevate their flying. At that point I think it starts to resemble golf and a recalibration of priorities is in order.
"If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong!"
This could not have been said any better. I actually was one of those fliers back around 2009. I competed in the Align Las Vegas Cup at that time in the Advanced class. The practicing and pushing myself to do the harder maneuvers really took a lot of time to just get down, let alone perfect. I went into this contest at that time high expectations for myself and ended up in second to last place. I had beat myself up over making stupid mistakes while I was flying and forgot why I even did competition flying in the first place and forgot that ai just need to enjoy doing it and don't worry about how high you place. Unlike some of the paid pro pilots, this wasn't about money or a desire to start making money in RC, I have a job and kinda got lost in the whole competition world in itself. Go out and have fun!

It changed my whole perception about flying and I can understand those whom have been burned out of the hobby because of it. I get that. Because that almost happened to me. But a quick self check on why I fly in the first place, kept me back in the game.

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02-12-2017 06:31 AM  15 months agoPost 19
Synergy333

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USA

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Now that there is a US F3N team, how should the RC community help support the attempt at World Championships?

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