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HelicopterMain Discussion › Best way to teach with a flybarless heli?
06-18-2014 01:27 PM  3 years agoPost 1
Phrogger

rrNovice

Gloucestershire, UK

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Hi Guys,

I am seeking some advice on the best way to teach a complete beginner to fly with a flybarless model please.

I have taught a number of guys to fly in the past using a flybar equipped heli and I always started them off learning to hover with a cross stick training aid. Several years later and I have a newcomer wanting me to teach him using a flybarless model. I am concerned about how FBL gyros react to a heli that is bouncing about on a training aid in random contact with the ground. Do they have a tendency to try and turn the heli over? Is this even a good way to teach someone anymore or would it be better to forget the training aid and go for buddy lead hovering higher up? Or is it best to advise him to buy a flybar machine and learn the old way?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

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06-18-2014 02:01 PM  3 years agoPost 2
floop

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Southern, NJ

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Most of the people I have helped learn to fly start with the simulator now. On the sim it is best for a beginner to work on hovering and takeoff / landing. After they can demonstrate this proficiently on the sim go over the model and make sure they have a docile setup.

A good starting point is:
Lower throttle curve or governor setting. For a 700 size model I would stay around 1800-1900 headspeed.
9 degrees positive and negative pitch.
6-7 degrees of cyclic
40-50 percent expo (depending on flybarless unit)
Normal pitch curve of 30-50-100 ( This reduces the negative pitch in normal)

After that it helps to buddy box them for the first few flights. This way they can get comfortable just hovering. Once hovering is mastered in one orientation have them practice landing.

When the beginner can successfully takeoff and land and keep a stable hover it's time to cut the cord and set them on their own.

IT's what I do.

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06-18-2014 03:31 PM  3 years agoPost 3
chas1025

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TN

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I would suggest a lower head speed, in the range of 1500-1600 for a 700 sized machine. Also, I would limit the negative pitch to about 3 degrees, positive pitch to about 7-8 degrees.

Many people now forget that just a few years ago 1800-1900 was the max for a 90 sized machine.

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06-18-2014 03:59 PM  3 years agoPost 4
ssmith512

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Indianapolis, IN USA

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I am concerned about how FBL gyros react to a heli that is bouncing about on a training aid in random contact with the ground.
I think I would be as well.

I think the best solution is buddy box and let the student have control after the heli has sufficient altitude. Definitely convince them to buy a sim though. That way they can continue their practice and also work on take off and landings without risk to the heli.

Steve

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06-18-2014 04:45 PM  3 years agoPost 5
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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One option is to turn off the cyclic gyros and just use the training gear NOBAR. In calm conditions, a FBL with or without gyro stabilization hovers virtually the same. And it would probably handle the gear safely just like a flybar model.

If you have a controller like the CGY 750 with a Fut. radio, you can even put this on a switch allowing you to have "NOBAR on demand".

Then, once the student gets good enough for forward flight or hovering/flying in wind, you can take off the gear and turn the gyros back on.....

And this way he can learn on the FBL heli he intends to fly.

LS

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06-18-2014 06:33 PM  3 years agoPost 6
Phrogger

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Gloucestershire, UK

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Thanks for the replies.

The first thing I suggested to him was to get a good simulator. I was then thinking of going straight to buddy lead and learning at altitude, so it's good to see others confirming these ideas. I must admit, I had not thought about switching off the cyclic gyros, but I can see the sense in the idea. Unfortunately, we don't seem to get very many calm days in the UK.

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06-19-2014 03:46 PM  3 years agoPost 7
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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I would start him on a cheap (but well setup) flybarred machine. A FBL heli can be set so you just lift the stick and the model stays relatively still for quite a while with no inputs needed, i.e. too easy and won't teach them as much as learning on a flybarred model.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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06-20-2014 09:19 AM  3 years agoPost 8
Poopfong

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Fort Walton Beach, FL USA

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I agree with Richardmid1, and it just happened to be the way I learned. My first was a fly-barred TREX 450 with weights on the fly-bar and on the tail grips (tail grips just came that way with ball link balls as weights). Felt like balancing a plate on a stick, but the weights dumbed it down enough to keep it top up.
**My good friend Bob (the guy that lured me into helicopters from large scale gassers) told me to spend 50 hours on the simulator before I took the collective controls. After that, hover for the first 20 flights or so until skills improve enough to perform a solid nose in hover. Then progress to coordinated forward flight for another 20. This was good advice as I learned from his years of trial, error, and mistakes. This also served to break me of the "second nature" reaction of forward flight I had as opposed to collective and reverse flight. I never used the training skids but in hindsight, they were unnecessary because most of the hovering was done near eye level or above. It is mentioned above about them interfering with the gyros on the ground, a distinct possibility. My goal would be to get at least 3 to 5 ft of altitude immediately, above the ground effect.
I sold my fly-barred helo and now have two DFCs. They are bigger and easy to see. I have crash kits but haven't used them yet. I attribute this to the solid footing afforded by the small fly-barred rig. (It's only a matter of time, I know). All that said, I have 3GX equipped aircraft and the software can be adjusted using my laptop to slow the flight controls way down and make it fly nearly hands off with almost a video game feel. I have flown is strong winds and they are hardly affected in a hover. I think most systems work generally the same way with varying amounts of adjustability. The benefit of the fly-barred method is you don't have to immediately upgrade to the latest technology, just keep speeding things up such as rates, gains, and travels as he goes. Can't emphasize the hours on simulator enough. The red button is way less expensive than blades. Good luck. Very respectfully, Poop

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06-21-2014 08:11 PM  3 years agoPost 9
revmix

rrKey Veteran

NJ

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orientation & control
lower headspeed & less swash tilt, that's all needed in either setup [& maybe some expo]

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