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HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › checking lean motor for damage
06-08-2014 05:46 PM  3 years agoPost 1
mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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I had a lean run on 2 OS motors; a 37 and 50 hyper. Both only have a few gallons of fuel thru them and are both newer motors. The cause was the fuelk as I was just starting a new gallon of though I don't want this to be a discussion on fuel. I was running the 50 and noticed the RPMs were higher than usual and the motor would not quickly drop to an idle when I dropped the throttle. Still had smoke so I did a circle, and the smoke just about disappeared. I quickly went to a hover and it started to loose power. I landed and checked the backplate which I could only hold onto for a couple of seconds as opposed to 5. The motor was hot enough, when I pulled the plug I could see a little smoke or something comming out. The motor heated up more as it set on the bench. It also melted the solder on the remote glow plug touching my glow plug. I let it cool and really richened it up and it seemed to fly great with lots of smoke.

A similar thing happened to my 37 but I was expecting it. I just went to a hover and after a little it started to loose power as well. Landed and the backplate was also hot couple seconds touch. My remot glow plug wire solder got undone as well. Richened it up and it seemed all better.

With that said, I am worred I went lean especally since they started to loose power. What do I do to see if there is any damage or what will a lean damaged motor act like?

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06-08-2014 06:41 PM  3 years agoPost 2
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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The power drop is norm as a lack of fuel the worrying part is the heat lead solder will melt at 165f so don't judge by that I think it would be best to pull the muffler n rotate piston up down check the top for a hole or surface damage . Next look at the ring area at the exhaust port usually this is where you will see the damage scouring on the ex port on the piston n possibly scoring on the sleeve wall as the heat builds up the piston will swell n the ring has no where to go but expand into the liner n it will work the ex port till the ring usually breaks up n loose compression

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06-08-2014 08:14 PM  3 years agoPost 3
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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Looking in the exhaust port is a good tell. The instant you know lean cut the engine and auto if you know how. Hovering is not a great thing to do as the engine is still at rpm and you probably reduced the fuel flow thus reducing the oil and cooling also.

Chris

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06-08-2014 08:56 PM  3 years agoPost 4
mustang67ford

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Based on what jeepworld said, i was thinking the loss of power was the due to lean damage, but what he said makes sense. Seeing how i was keeping an eye on it, that they flew good once richened up (like 8 clicks), and that i could still put my finger on the backplate, i don't think i did any damage.

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06-09-2014 02:39 AM  3 years agoPost 5
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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Hey worse case you keep having to tighten it n the heat returns or you start to loose more power. The damage done wont fix itself nor will you do any more damage running it, basically once you scoured piston ring n liner that all you will have to replace if you start loosing more power

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06-09-2014 04:14 AM  3 years agoPost 6
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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If you damaged your motor, the piston/ring would look similar to this:

on the side of the piston which faces the exhaust port. Scarring/galling of the skirt and ring would be present. The cylinder may also be scored near the exhaust port.

It is possible that you caught and corrected the problem in time, and suffered no lasting damage. Peek into the exhaust port and look at the piston/ring.

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06-09-2014 05:22 PM  3 years agoPost 7
mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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Thanks for the info and the pic. I hadn't noticed any loss in power once I richened it up.

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06-10-2014 02:12 AM  3 years agoPost 8
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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For what it is worth : When breaking in a fresh motor : Especially the High End stuff like Rossi's, Nelson's, Jett's, Webra's The Chezk stuff -

Be aware the motor must go through several heat cycles or break in as many call it . All component's must unify in their expansion and contact surface's : Seating or Lapping.

One of they way''s they talk - is a drop in RPM as they swell. It's time to back off and let it cool again or heat cycle in the air why you are flying - just easy orbit's.

I've got a few that I can literally turn off or on during the cycle process as they break in. - you just stick with it till you can count on it to STAY ON !

The right thing-- run a few click's rich for your comfort level till you can creep into it fly with what you got -- and listen to the vulture;s gallery and grin.

ALSO be Very aware that The Temp and Humidity have a tremendous effect on how it is going to perform. All--WAY's set or Tune to the safe side - Know the Environment

It will tell you Ive got one I've actually pushed it past 340 F.

I also run the Secret Sauce from Ida Grove : Since the 80's

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06-10-2014 02:48 AM  3 years agoPost 9
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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No, no,
say it's not so, you ran the temperature past two hundred that's taboo.lol

Chris

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06-10-2014 03:33 AM  3 years agoPost 10
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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It was righteous ! I'm, probably going back to it too ! Even had a witness !!! I run a thermocouple K - Wire imbedded directly against the cylinder wall under the 1st Fin not touching the head.

BEfore a Buddy of mine had a Min Air Tack - Once we went past the Tack He Told me I was a Crazy Fool ! made me PROUD !!! Hit me with a Crazy Stick. It's on a Black Pea Motor Too with the worst carb ever Dreamed up by Whang Chang.

Definite Hard hat and Garbage Can Lid for protection on 10%

1st time I ever heard a set of G-5's go to Bacon
It's a Pig Too !!! Ton's of Weight - You Name it - It's hanging on their some where -- Pimp Copter -- Which I never have

Da Cantancerouse Beast with a Bad attitude - Can't Kill It either - Just GEt's MAD !

They just laugh and Shake their Head : Piece of

Luv It - drive's em Nutt's

greyeagle

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06-10-2014 04:01 AM  3 years agoPost 11
jason46

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MI

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May want to check for an air leak if this was unusual event and it had been running fine, if you hadn't been cranking in the needles.

We made up some rules can we have your moneys now.

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06-11-2014 05:27 AM  3 years agoPost 12
Rob43

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Midland, MI USA

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I found on inspection of my engine (Redline 53 with O.S. carb) that both my fuel fitting and pipe fitting loosened up. So, then, I opened up the engine, and although it never acted lean, or went low on power, I had a dark brown - almost black spot on the piston crown. I cleaned it with a Scotchbrite pad and cleaned the fittings thoroughly when I reassembled. I actually put a drop of red loctite on the fuel fitting to the carb, although I doubt it will hold up to the fuel. Otherwise my engine was spotless - good ring, great looking bronze plug color, and all else clean. The last flight after I experienced the loose fittings and had tightened them up, I had a flame out. I autoed safely, thank goodness, but I removed the piston tonight to do the cleaning. I didn't bother it at first. Second thoughts led me to conclude the brown/black spot on the piston was carbon which flaked off to foul the plug. Funny part was the plug checked okay at the bench after the flameout, so it must have passed through. Keeping fuel delivery (including muffler or crankcase pressure) tight and free of flaws is a constant challenge at times. Any leaks seem to cause lean conditions that result in damage to some extent.

Rob

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06-12-2014 01:04 AM  3 years agoPost 13
mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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I pulled the muffler and to my relief, all looked good. The top of the piston looked brand new. Here are pics I took. The motor has about 3 gallons of fuel thru it.

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06-12-2014 01:23 AM  3 years agoPost 14
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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You overheated it for sure, after three gallons the engine should like it came out of the box. The brown is cooked oil, the clean area under the ring is where the piston expanded and had no lubrication. I would not be surprised to see a quick stick behind the ex bridge. That said if it seems to be running ok, keep burning fuel.

Chris

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06-12-2014 01:28 AM  3 years agoPost 15
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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Looks good to me just to little fuel to gain more power. Just keep eye on heat n may be go in a click till u get a tad more power if your lacking out put but all looks good wish mine was that way when I pulled my muffler off guess I liked the power but forgot to check temp I just got 10 sec of 50 % power n pop fizzle auto crack smack see my pic if my ys 50 in my gallery

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06-12-2014 02:37 AM  3 years agoPost 16
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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What fuel were you using?

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06-12-2014 04:42 AM  3 years agoPost 17
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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The reason I ask about the fuel is not to start a "my fuel is better than your fuel debate", I ask because I am curious about what kind of lube us in it.

The answer might shed light on the piston skirt color.

Based on your pictures I'd say you got lucky and your motor survived.

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06-12-2014 04:50 AM  3 years agoPost 18
3dgimble

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Rochester

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Mustang, the motor looks good to go, the ring is still black. It needs either better fuel or better tuning. The piston shouldn't be that dark after a couple of gallons.

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06-12-2014 05:11 AM  3 years agoPost 19
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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The fuel is a "homebrew" club fuel. Nothing wrong with that, but if you don't pay close attention to the recipe your fuel may be like a box of chocolates, you never know what's in the bottle each time you whip up a new batch.

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Dave

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06-12-2014 11:18 AM  3 years agoPost 20
mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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I typically run my motors on the rich side. Could that cause a darker color piston?

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HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › checking lean motor for damage
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