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Gaui X3 › can i use talon 35 with the dominator in a gauix3?
02-23-2014 09:44 PM  3 years agoPost 1
youngbuck

rrNovice

Maine

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Hey guys im just curious if i can use the new dominator motor in the gaui x3.I was thinking about getting the 6s setup and im ordering from HD so im planning on either geting the cc talon 35 with the built in BEC or the 40 amp align one.
My question is-if i used the talon 35 with the 6s dominator motor,can i use my 3s and 6s packs or just my 6s packs.Any info would be greatly appreciated.And do i really need a BEC.Maybe someone could point me in the direction of a good explanation of a bec.How do some helis run an esc without a bec and not fry there servos when using a 6s or larger battery?
but my first question is-is the talon 35 suitable for the 6s dominator in my gaui x3?
thank you so much fellow heli piolts

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02-23-2014 10:54 PM  3 years agoPost 2
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Which Dominator motor? The 6S, 1800 Kv motor, or the 3S 3200Kv motor?

If you have the 6S motor, the 1800 Kv one, then you will need to run the X3 using a 6S LiPo setup.

-----

Looking at the Gaui X3, it comes with a 131 tooth main gear, and a 13 tooth pinion, giving a gear ratio of 10.07:1.

The Gaui X3, when using the Gaui GUEC GM302 motor, would run a head speed of approximately 3100-3200 RPM.

The Gaui motor is designed for a 6S power system, and is rated at 1580 Kv -- 1580 rpm / volt.

Assuming 90% efficiency, head speed comes out at:

((22.2 volts X 1580 Kv) * 0.9) / 10.07.

Gaui recommends a 40A minimum ESC for the X3 with the GM-302 motor.

-----

If you have the Align 460MX, 1800 Kv motor for a 6S power supply, you could expect a head speed of approximately 3600 RPM, assuming you use a 13 tooth pinion.

((22.2v * 1800 Kv) *0.9) / 10.07

Use a 12 tooth pinion, that would reduce the head speed to approximately 3300 RPM.

((22.2v * 1800 Kv) * 0.9) / 10.91

Align states their 460MX, 1800 Kv motor is rated at 30 amps continuous, and 45 amp peaks of duration 5 seconds or less.

The Talon 35 ESC would work in this case, but I'm not sure I'd recommend doing so. You'd be better off using a 40 to 45 amp ESC, however. Using the 460MX 1800 Kv motor would force you to use a 6S battery pack.

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If you have the Align 460MX motor, 3200 Kv, for a 3S power source, you would have a head speed of 3100-3200 RPM, using a 13-tooth pinion.

The 460MX, 3200 Kv motor is rated at 45 amps maximum, 68 amps peak, for a 3S supply.

Looks to me as if you would want to use an ESC good for at least 45 amps in a 3S installation. The Talon 35 would not cut it in a 3S installation.

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BEC -- Battery Eliminator Circuit. Fancy name for a voltage regulator. These are usually powered by the same battery you would use to run the motor. By doing so, you Eliminate the need for a separate battery pack to run your radio stuff (hence "battery eliminator" ).

The BEC built into many 35-50 amp ESCs are typically usually good for supplying 3 amps on a continuous basis, and higher peaks for one or two seconds. These days, with high performance digital servos and high head speeds, coupled with flybarless operation, the 3 amp continuous rating is marginal. Depending upon the manufacturer, these may run off the 6S main battery you're already using to power the motor.

That is where an external regulator comes into play. These generally can be had with a higher continuous output rating, and a wider range of input voltages.

If you see "HV" ESCs, these usually don't have a built-in BEC, and you need to use a separate voltage regulator.

Of course there are alternatives to needing a regulator, those involve using servos, receivers, and flybarless controllers cabpable of running from voltages higher than the traditional 4.8 - 5.8 volt systems.

Most 2.4 GHz receivers these days will run directly from a 2S Lipo (or 2S LiFe battery). Most flybarless controllers will run from a 2S LiPo or 2S LiFe battery. Picking HV servos that can tolerate a 2S LiPo or 2S LiFe battery rounds out the bits and pieces you'd need to run unregulated power from a 2S LiPo or 2S LiFe pack. Of course, this now means you need to use that extra 2S battery pack to run your radio stuff.

-----

If you're running a 6S battery, you'll need either a BEC or Regulator good for operating on the 6S input. You'll also need to use a motor designed for 6S power.

If you're running a 3S battery, you'll still need some form of BEC or regulator, and you'll need to use a motor designed to operate on a 3S input.

-----

If you want to run a 6S setup, I'd suggest the 460MX 1800 Kv motor, and the Align 45 amp ESC.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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02-23-2014 11:05 PM  3 years agoPost 3
utahslim

rrNovice

phoenix

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Yes, you can run a 35A ESC on a 6S Gaui X3. Jc Zankl does it. 'Nuf said.

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02-23-2014 11:27 PM  3 years agoPost 4
es1co2bar3

rrKey Veteran

winnetka california

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You need a minimum 40amp to run a 6s, if your using a 4s you need 11t pinions. If your 3s with 325mm blade you should've no problem. Keep in mind the 121t main gear RPM is really low on a 3s setup.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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02-23-2014 11:47 PM  3 years agoPost 5
youngbuck

rrNovice

Maine

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Dave thank you for the lengthy and very knowledgable info.after looking at prices of the 6s batteries,I think im going to stick with the 3s.Im going to get the dominator 3s motor with the align 45 esc.Im basically still in the hoovering stage so i dont think it much matters. But the RCE BL45x esc say it has a governor,Is this the same as the BEC or does it just gover your head speed?
now im thinking pulse 3s ultra 2250 or the regular pulse 2700? they are about the same price?

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02-24-2014 02:23 AM  3 years agoPost 6
es1co2bar3

rrKey Veteran

winnetka california

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you're welcome bro

Get the 3s with the 150t main gear dominator, "if your going 3s you don't need a 45 amp but good choice anyway, I always use bigger ESC on the smaller application just incase.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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02-24-2014 04:21 AM  3 years agoPost 7
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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A BEC -- battery eliminator circuit (regulator) -- is NOT a Governor.

The BEC/Regulator is a device that runs from your battery (6S in this case, or about 22.2 volts) and reduces it down to roughly 5 - 6 volts that your servos and other electronics can safely handle.

A Governor is in place to attempt to maintain the main rotor RPM at a set value, regardless of load or throttle setting. Depending on what you are using, it senses either the motor RPM, or the main rotor RPM, and uses that information, along with some knowledge of the gear reduction ratio in your heli, adjusts the speed control output or the throttle servo output to maintain motor and head speed.

-----

Beware of battery size when it comes to choice. The 2700 may have a bit more capacity than the 2250, but that typically comes at the cost of additional weight -- placing a penalty on available power.

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As for Utahslim's comment -- note that I had stated you could get away with a 35 amp ESC running 6S, but would probably opt for something with a little more operating margin.

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Esco -- the Gaui X3 comes with a 131 tooth main gear, not 121 as you indicated. Perhaps a typo on your part.

I supplied my projected head speed calculations, you can see that adequate RPM can be had by either a 3S or 6S setup, dependent upon choice of pinions, and yes, rotor blade length. A high headspeed with a 3S setup will necessarily require much more current out of the motor to do so, however. Note that the 3S motor requires much more current than the 6S motor to do its thing.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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02-24-2014 04:44 AM  3 years agoPost 8
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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youngbuck
does it just gover your head speed?
yes governs your hs

Insha Allah made in america

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02-24-2014 11:00 AM  3 years agoPost 9
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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If you are running 6s a 35 amp ESC is way more than you need.

Depending on how you fly you could pick a 12 or 13T pinion for the Align 1800kv motor on 6s and govern to a max of around 3300 or 3600 depending which pinion you use.

If you ran this setup on 3s you would see 1650 rpm and 1800 rpm depending on pinion again.

THE CURRENT DRAW WILL BE ROUGHLY THE SAME (with same pinion) so again the Talon 35 would be more than enough.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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02-24-2014 12:22 PM  3 years agoPost 10
ChristianM

rrVeteran

Oslo, Norway

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I agree, the Talion 35 at 6S will be perfect for the X5.

Christian

Burn fuel, be happy

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02-24-2014 12:28 PM  3 years agoPost 11
ChristianM

rrVeteran

Oslo, Norway

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You need a minimum 40amp to run a 6s, if your using a 4s you need 11t pinions. If your 3s with 325mm blade you should've no problem.
You have got this backwards, higher voltage allows you to use a smaller ESC assuming the same power output. Power = Current * Voltage so if you double the voltage then the current is cut in half for the same power output.

Christian

Burn fuel, be happy

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02-24-2014 12:34 PM  3 years agoPost 12
es1co2bar3

rrKey Veteran

winnetka california

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Esco -- the Gaui X3 comes with a 131 tooth main gear, not 121 as you indicated. Perhaps a typo on your part
go back and reads the threads pls' he said dominator] that's not even close to the wording of a GAUI.

my argument on the setup is correct,
AMP vs WEIGHT vs LOAD]

put a 35 amp on a 6s spinning 360mm blade this's frying time.

"Everyone selling a 6s application just look at what ESC" they provide.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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02-24-2014 12:38 PM  3 years agoPost 13
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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I think YOU need to read it again esco!

They sell 50+ amp esc's on 6s setup helis so you can use them with 3s aswell not because it is needed for 6s!!

60% of the time, it works every time!

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02-24-2014 12:52 PM  3 years agoPost 14
es1co2bar3

rrKey Veteran

winnetka california

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I agree, the Talion 35 at 6S will be perfect for the X5.
"I must be dreaming to Rass,) "Align sell their REX 500 with 60amp back in the days and that didn't go so well now it come with 70AMP esc and your going to use 35amp with 550mm blade.

I have my side effects with RC heli using small Act for big App] I see the end results!......so he want to listen to you guys its fine, I am not arguing with a soul.

my mini Proto 1630 kv MT 14t pin: come with 100amp scorpion ESC", + 360mm blade.

Go ahead do this with a 35 amp esc and show me the end results after a crazy azz flights.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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02-24-2014 01:02 PM  3 years agoPost 15
es1co2bar3

rrKey Veteran

winnetka california

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They sell 50+ amp esc's on 6s setup helis so you can use them with 3s aswell not because it is needed for 6s!!
Oh my God, he ask if he can use a 35amp on the Dominator, since he didn't spec what vs] of the heli,
I gave him several OPP, for the Dominator use 4 setup type.

I said a minimum of 40amp for 6s flights no 35amp won't even fly a 6s 325mm blade much less, ......unless you're going to hover for 2 min and land,
I doubts it'll let you hover that long trough.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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02-24-2014 01:12 PM  3 years agoPost 16
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Esco --- other than the TOPIC stating:
Can I use Talon 35 with the Dominator in a GAUI X3
the first sentence of his original post is:
Hey guys im just curious if i can use the new dominator motor in the gaui x3.
My math is correct, you may have had trouble understanding the original post.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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02-24-2014 01:21 PM  3 years agoPost 17
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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There are two different 460MX motors for the Dominator...

460MX 1800 Kv for 6S
460MX 3200 Kv for 3S

I gave him both options.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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02-24-2014 01:28 PM  3 years agoPost 18
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Esco, ChristianM obviously meant to put X3 not X5!! Also there was nothing and still is nothing wrong with using a 60 amp ESC on a Trex 500.

Do some research Esco, a 6s 450 even with 360mm blades is fine with a 35A ESC! You would have to be completely brain dead to over gear the heli so much that it hurt that ESC!

60% of the time, it works every time!

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02-24-2014 01:33 PM  3 years agoPost 19
ChristianM

rrVeteran

Oslo, Norway

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Escobar

You should go back and read the OP.

The specs for the Dominator motor 460MX 1800 Kv are:
—Input voltage:6S
—Max continuous current:30A/45A(5sec)
—Max output power:Approx. 650W/970W(5sec)

The Talion 35 can handle 35 amps continuously at 6S. So as long as you are not asking the motor to do more than it is designed for then the Talion 35 should work just fine.

Christian

Burn fuel, be happy

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02-24-2014 01:34 PM  3 years agoPost 20
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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There are two different 460MX motors for the Dominator...
460MX 1800 Kv for 6S
460MX 3200 Kv for 3S
I gave him both options.
That you did Dave yes.

The OP has only said he wants to use the 1800kv version in the X3 but use both his 3s and 6s packs. I assume he wants to use his 3s packs for low head speed smooth stuff and his 6s pack when he wants to tear up the sky? If this is the case then the Talon 35 will be absolutely fine.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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