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HelicopterTandem Rotor Craft Chinook - Osprey › Shaft Drive Vertol!
02-23-2014 08:01 AM  3 years agoPost 1
hrc37

rrApprentice

Derry, PA

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Project I've been working on for a few months now. After my 3rd blade strike, I decided I had to do something or was going to sell the Vertol because I just couldn't trust the belt system anymore nor was I going to risk damaging the fuselage. Still have some more parts to make but its getting there. Will update as time goes on.
Mark

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02-27-2014 01:26 PM  3 years agoPost 2
ady

rrKey Veteran

norfolk england

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sweeeeeeeeeeeettttttt , nice one dude , thanks for sharing

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03-15-2014 06:42 AM  3 years agoPost 3
hrc37

rrApprentice

Derry, PA

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Ready to start testing!

Well I've completed the conversion and I'm pretty happy on how it turned out. It seems very smooth and I only have about .001" run out on the drive shaft. Time to start run-up testing and reinstalling the radio and all the linkage.

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03-15-2014 09:19 AM  3 years agoPost 4
heli_madken

rrApprentice

Liverpool, England

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Phenomenal work, I love the way you have thought it through, used off the shelf components and I am glad to see you have pinned the gears in place to stop them backing away under pressure

I think you will be fine with this just keep inspecting the gears after every flight

Keep us up to date with progress

Ken

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03-15-2014 05:12 PM  3 years agoPost 5
hrc37

rrApprentice

Derry, PA

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Thanks Ken and yes, I tried to keep it as simple as possible with also taking a number of things into consideration. Of course you never really know for sure until you start testing it and see what happens.

I should also give a "thank you" to Andy (aka "navzptc" from the UK. I got some of my design thoughts from his shaft conversion and we've talking about the gearing in the past which also helped me decide on which way to go.

Mark

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03-17-2014 02:29 PM  3 years agoPost 6
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Looking Good....

Looks like a nice upgrade Mark.... looking forward to seeing this one in the air!!!
What are your plans for the radio install?? Going to use the mechanical set up, or go with some sort of electronic stabi??

Good Luck,

Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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03-24-2014 06:22 AM  3 years agoPost 7
hrc37

rrApprentice

Derry, PA

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Thanks Stan!

I'm staying with the original mechanical set-up and using a Beast-X for stability control. I was using the standard 3 gyro setup up until last year when I decided to give the Beast-X a try. But I only got a few flights in before I had a blade strike. That's when I decided I had to do something and decided to change it to gear drive.

I've done some test run-ups and everything looks great. No vibration and the gears aren't showing any signs of wear. So I started to installing the radio gear and all the linkages. This should take me a week or two and then it's onto making a set of blades. I do have a set of Edge 473mm blades I'm going to try but I don't think these have enough leading edge weight which may cause some problems.

Mark

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07-01-2014 06:00 AM  3 years agoPost 8
hrc37

rrApprentice

Derry, PA

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First flights with 430mm blades

Well the first few flights I made I was using the Edge 473mm blades. Everything seemed good, sounded good, and hovered nicely. But there where a few times I could hear a loud clicking noise such as the gears stripping or the blades hitting. After checking the gears a number of times, all seemed fine with them and I couldn't see any signs that the blades were hitting and I can't see anyway this could happen with a "gear" drive train. So after the second flight I noticed while cleaning the blades that the rear set had two blades that had small chips at the very outer tip on the bottom (first pic). I have no idea how this is happening other then I built some backlash into the gear train and maybe this along with the lead/lag of the blades (which where bolted very tight) and maybe some flex in the aluminum drive shaft was some how letting the blades hit. So I decided to remove all backlash in the gear train and try a set of Maverick 430mm blades. I really had no idea how these shorter blades were going to work and was afraid that they would really look out of scale. But after bolting both sets on, I don't think they look out of scale at all (pic 2 and 3). So I did two short flights with these blades and they seemed to work really well. Of course I haven't done much other then hovering and just moving the helicopter around some. But so far so good and I haven't heard any strange noises. There's two links to two short Youtube videos I posted using the 430mm blades. By the way, the blades were only $107.97 shipped! Mark

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

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07-01-2014 02:15 PM  3 years agoPost 9
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Awesome Comes To Mind!!!

Mark, looks like you have it under control!!! Great job....

Couple of questions for you...

Head speed??

How does it feel turning 90 degrees to left and right... smooth, or do you need to fight it a little??

In foward (slow for now) does the nose want to pitch up while flying or stopping??

Just wondering.... and wit the BeastX you can use DR/EXPO to help tame normal controls...

Thinking it looks awesome in the hover...and I did not notice some of the tendencies that the later model that I flew had...

Looking forward to more videos...

Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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07-01-2014 04:23 PM  3 years agoPost 10
hrc37

rrApprentice

Derry, PA

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Doesn't want to turn!

Thanks Stan,

As for head speed, not sure, haven't had it checked with a tach yet. If I had to guess, I think it's around 1800. Which I think the manual says it should be around 1500 to 1600...so it may be a little high but I am running shorter blades.

As for the turning, I'm glad you asked because it doesn't want to and I do have to fight it. I thought it was the Beastx causing it and I've turned the tail way down but that hasn't seem to help...??????

As for pitch up in forward flight, I really don't know yet since I haven't done much forward flight.

And yes, I have set some expo in the cyclic controls and its pretty docile right now.

I'm trying to get the head speed more constant. I'm running a cheap Hobby King speed control which these do work nice for the money but I think I need something a little more percise so I'm going to order a Castle Creation speed controller for it. I'm only running 8 (3300mah) cells but it seems to have more then enough power and I'm getting over 6 minutes of flight time. The two videos I posted I was only at half throttle most of the time.

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07-01-2014 05:01 PM  3 years agoPost 11
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Good Info

I think that I ran mine at 1500rpm with the longer blades.. so if you can get yours down to say 1600, I think it should be fine..but very close to those numbers should be good....
The reason I asked if it would turn was because it looked for just a moment in your vid that you tried to turn it and it looked like it fault you a bit... I would have to say that most likely the phasing is a bit off... you may have to turn the swash follower a bit either way off from center..on LH rotation just a bit to the right... maybe 2-3 degrees, and opposite for the RH rotation head...
Just a thought!!!
Also is there a way for you to increase the amount of swash travel for the rudder turns?? The tail/rudder is not anything like a Pod & Boomer, in that it will feel mushy, for no better term!! But when right it will go just fine!!

Maybe some of this might help you out...

OH and on electric, you would be best to just run a straight line in your idle up mode... so, if you were at about half throttle for the videos, I would say to go to idle up 2 and set a straight line at 60% (just as an example) check to see where your throttle was when you were hovering and use that number) (L, M, H)
Set your hold switch to -20...
Make certain that all your trims will be the same in idle up 2 as in all other flight modes...no changes when you switch between the modes...
Turn on your tx... then turn hold on...
Set your idle up switch to 2
When ready, just shut off your hold and let her come up to RPM.. then just go fly it!!!(or hover in this case)

Chew on these suggestions a bit, and hopefully it will help you out a little... Your on your way though... just getting them to hover like yours is a good trick!!!

Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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07-01-2014 08:36 PM  3 years agoPost 12
hrc37

rrApprentice

Derry, PA

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Phasing

I didn't even think about the phasing causing it to not want to turn. And right now I have 0 phasing set. So I'll try and play with that and see where it gets me.

As for idle up, I was thinking about the best way to set that. This is really the first scale machine that I've built that is electric. My others have been nitro and I've used governors. So thanks for the suggestion on that too.

If it stays in one piece between now and August, I will bring it with me to the Nats and IRCHA and it will have the body on it finally. I've been waiting almost five years to put that thing on and fly it!

Mark

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07-01-2014 10:32 PM  3 years agoPost 13
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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ESC, Slow Spool Up

I am not sure how slow your esc will let your motor start... if you go with a Castle Creations, you can dial the spool up to come up as fast or slow as you like...
WIth the above said... THEN use my suggestion for the throttle curve/line!!!

It is going to look "SWEET" in that fuselage... and only 5 years!!! Amazing how things have changed so much in just those few years to let you turn this into a true flying model...

Best of luck with it Mark...

Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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07-01-2014 10:45 PM  3 years agoPost 14
Phoenix NOTAR

rrApprentice

State College, PA USA

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Stan is in error (sorry Stan). Phasing on these older tandems is done with the swash plate anti rotation link on the swash outer. The Beast X electronic phasing should not be used, as this is actually a mechanical non ccpm set up.

Sandy

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07-01-2014 11:04 PM  3 years agoPost 15
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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No Problem

Sandy, I understand this the older older set up... and meant that it would be a mechanical phasing.. that is why I mentioned the swash follower being moved, but did not realize it is the outer swash that would get moved... so GOOD CATCH
The only thing that I mentioned the BX about was to see how it was holding each function...
Thanks for making sure that we are on the right track... I know that you had your old one looking rock solid too....

Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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07-02-2014 05:04 AM  3 years agoPost 16
hrc37

rrApprentice

Derry, PA

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Thanks Sandy

Hey Sandy, thanks for keeping everyone straight but I knew what Stan was talking about. In fact, I'm running a AR7200BX which I don't think it has a setting for phasing like the stand alone Beastx unit.

And Stan, your right about the spool up. There's not much adjustment for this with the Hobby King speed control so I have to be so careful on startup so I don't damage the gears. Ordered a Castle today so hopefully I'll get it sometime early next week.

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11-29-2016 08:45 PM  10 months agoPost 17
hrc37

rrApprentice

Derry, PA

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Saga will continue!

After a number of promising achievements, I had a number of major setbacks so I shelved this project and came very close to selling this machine. But after seeing Joel's and Sandy's Hirobo Vertols fly at Dalton this past September cause me to rethink my issues and give this project another go. Some of the setbacks I had converting it to shaft drive was the aluminum drive shaft snapping, Blade strike due to lose blades (lead/lag), and the last mishap was a cracked gear. I also had an issue with vibration caused by the replacement stainless steel drive shaft that I was never able to get completely straight.
So some of the changes I will make is first, I ordered a 8mm solid carbon drive shaft. I figured that this will be the best alternative to the stainless steel one and should run as true as anything that is possible. I'm also going to use Vario bevel drive gears since these should be the strongest available. I also will be using the Bavarian Demon 3SX FBL controller and going with a 4 servo setup (2 per head) and eliminating all the control rods and bell-cranks of the original setup. I'm also changing the motor and going with the same Scorpion motor that Joel is using and using the factory clutch instead of the direct drive that I was using before. And because of this, I will be using one 6 cell li-po in place of the two 4 cell packs I was using before. So stay tuned and I will update with pic's as soon as I start all the modifications which I hope will be next week. Mark

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11-30-2016 02:24 AM  10 months agoPost 18
chinooker

rrApprentice

Florence, KY

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Very nice project and work. The Bavarian 3SX is the way to go on your Vertol. Mc Master Carr sells some nice case harden shafting for the combining shaft if the solid carbon shaft does not work out. PM me if you need any help. Good luck!

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12-02-2016 03:50 PM  10 months agoPost 19
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Great Project!!

Glad to see this back on the boards!!
After seeing Joel and Sandy this year, I can certainly understand the new motivation

Will be following!!!
Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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