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Triabolo › TRIABOLO Build... Please chime in for tips and advise!
02-19-2014 05:40 PM  3 years agoPost 1
FRANK R

rrApprentice

Scarborough, ontario, canada

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HI Everyone!... I am in the middle of my build on my TRIABOLO, I will be running 12s power, 18T 8mm pinion with a target HS of 1600 , 1700 , 1750-1800 , +/- 10 Pitch... Here are the list of my electronics I will be using;

Pyro 800-48
Kosmik 200 + Integrated heat sink w/fan , using 8v internal BEC
Gens Ace 450mAh 7.4v 25c buffer batt.
MKS 8X HBL 850 on cyclic
MKS 8X HBL 880 on tail
BDemon 3X running 2 JR Sat :...To be positioned on both sides of a whisker mount with the active element facing out on each side of the mount fitted with antenna tubes.

No rush on my build for now, cause it's bad winter here in Ontario, Canada!... EVERYONE with a Triabolo, please chime in for some tips and advise on setups... Your participation would be greatly appreciated!...Thanks!

Demon in ME... Kosmik = Kostme

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02-19-2014 05:51 PM  3 years agoPost 2
Craigdieslemac

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Valdosta, Ga USA

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Congrats on the minicopter, they are amazing.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

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02-19-2014 06:26 PM  3 years agoPost 3
wrongler

rrProfessor

Brewerton, New York

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Best tip and advise I have for you is to send it to me for about 2 months and I will check it out for you!
Just tryin' to be helpful!

Bill Whittaker

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02-20-2014 09:14 AM  3 years agoPost 4
Luvmyhelis

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Spokane, Washington. USA

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Shoot, I just got my own almost finished up. Beautiful heli to build! I loaded mine up with lots of custom parts though.
Congrats on yours!

Old cranky heli builder

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02-24-2014 12:56 AM  3 years agoPost 5
trillian

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London, UK

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Seems like almost everyone is going with really big motors. Since my flying style is smooth, more FAI type stuff (not to mention that I just can't spend any more money right now!) I'm building mine (Triabolo 700) with pretty standard 12s stuff.

At the moment it is;
Hacker A-50 'Turnado' 470KV
YEP120HV
RJX FS-0521 servos on swash, BLS276 on the tail.
Spartan Vortex

At the moment I haven't totally decided yet about RX power, probably direct from LiFe packs as it makes it really simple and then I can see how it goes from there.

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02-24-2014 02:36 AM  3 years agoPost 6
Craigdieslemac

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Valdosta, Ga USA

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I do prefer the direct battery connection.. I use HV setups so I use a Lipo. I have gotten into buffer packs lately and using the BEC on my Kosmik equipped heli's though. I had to be talked into that.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

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02-24-2014 10:02 PM  3 years agoPost 7
Luvmyhelis

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Spokane, Washington. USA

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Trillian, I love the fact you are building yours under a budget most guys can relate to, instead of $800 esc's and such. I have gone all three ways with my helis concerning Bec Vs Rx power. Every one of my internally based esc bec setups has failed at one time or another. Regardless of how expensive my Esc has been. Or, I have lost battery pack power that has taken out my pack based bec. That happened three times last year. Either way I watched $$$ 3 to 4ks worth of heli tumble down and scatter expensive parts all over or burst into flames.

I ran 2s Rx packs until my Sk720 pro logger revealed huge voltage dips coming out of the servo rail under my growing flight demands. I run high end high draw servos however. This happened through four different variety's of Rx life packs. Then I went to 3s lipo powered Bec's and never looked back. But, I know others that run Bec's off their main packs and a few with esc based bec's that have never had any issues. I have yet to meet anyone having full Rx life pack failures that resulted in a crash! But dozens running bec's based off the main packs or main esc's who have lost helis. Regardless of brand!

Thomas, who owns MKS USA. Told me on the phone a while back that the #1 reason in the entire industry for servo related failures comes from industry wide esc based bec failures. And his advice to any and everyone is to run separate RX packs. No esc of any kind has been immune to this!

I find that you run the largest motor that you need so the heli doesn't bog during your flight style. And if you don't need it, the larger motor is a waste. Drawing amps you don't need which shorten your flight times and give back nothing in return. However, some of the larger motors like the new Kde gen 3 series run thick single strand wire. Which pulls less amps in spite of their capability. So if you fly easy, they fly longer without drawing amps just because.

I ran a wimpy Align 750mx motor in my first 700 Gob for the first summer I owned it. And was pretty happy with the heli. It gave me consistent 8 to 9 minute flights with big air sport. But began bogging horribly when moving into 3d work.

As a side note to this mini novel. I was told by Chuck at Peak Aircraft when I picked up my own Tri 800, not to use a monster motor in it! It is simply not needed.

Old cranky heli builder

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02-25-2014 03:25 PM  3 years agoPost 8
trillian

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London, UK

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Triabolo motors and rx power

Hey Luvmyhelis,

Thanks for your input For me specifically, the Triabolo was a somewhat unexpected purchase, someone I know suddenly decided to sell it and I felt I just had to grab the opportunity. Otherwise I was not planning to buy any helis this year. So having not budgeted for something like that I had to keep it conservative, at least for the moment.

I did decide from the start to go all HV on the servos as it just allows more options for RX power.

There was a time when all my 90 size helis were nitro or petrol so I have been used to various regulators and redundant RX power etc. and so far (touch wood) I have never had a crash due to an RX power issue since I moved away from the old NiMh packs.

On the smaller helis I love the convenience of the built-in BEC in the Jives but the more power being demanded from the servos the more I'd feel better with a totally independent power setup.

On the motor and ESC, at the end of the day the 700 Triabolo is not going to require massively more power than another comparable size and weight 700. The three bades are only a tiny bit heavier in total when compared to a pair of the Radix FAI 710s for example and although there is some extra drag, I am told that less pitch is needed. In any case, as you say, you need a motor capable of handling the flying you do without bogging. My rave ENV has a YEP 120 and an Align 700M that has been rewound with single strand wire (and slightly higher KV, like 530) and that setup has plenty of power for my flying, like (to me anyway) a stunning amount of power, just effortless.

So we'll see how this Hacker does. I have run it for a few flights in a 600 size heli and of course it had a very easy time so it's hard to judge.

I plan to see how the Triabolo does on lower headspeeds per what some of the F3C guys are doing now.

When I get it ready to start testing I'll try a LiFe pack and just see what the voltage does when the servos are being moved around etc. I have quite large packs, 3000mah 20C Hyperions, so in theory they should have plenty of juice.

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02-25-2014 03:39 PM  3 years agoPost 9
Craigdieslemac

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Valdosta, Ga USA

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Nice write up LMH.. I still run a battery backup on my Kosmik ESC.. But it is way smaller and lighter than the 2s pack I was running as a stand alone RX pack, and it will run all the servos and FBL controller in the event of ESC failure. I use the backup battery alone when adjusting the Vbar or running flight control checks. One thing I have learned from working on real helicopters is redundancy is your friend.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

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02-25-2014 06:32 PM  3 years agoPost 10
Luvmyhelis

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Spokane, Washington. USA

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So true CDM! And that is some seriously nice equipment btw! As is the list of the ops heli. I guess from my flight style I haven't noticed the extra heft of the RX packs? I can def see the hardcore 3d guys shunning it.

Trillian, I know who you bought that heli from. I made a bid at that myself. That was an outstanding purchase!

And yeah, a rewind changes everything! Correctly done single strand raises the efficiency and power to new heights the factory's doing multi strand can't compete with. But it is harder to pull off and much more expensive. I have spent days in the past winding just one motor. Company's such as Scorpion and Kontronics have been using this to achieve better motors. And now KDE uses this with high end components on their Gen 3 motors. They use four bearing shaft supports to create monsters that can shred gears and yet achieve some kind of efficiency while doing so if the demand isn't there. Plus the highest quality mags on the market, which are very hard to obtain. They don't look as pretty though as the Kontronics bling versions. (ohh so pretty!) But very well might be producing more power than they do at half the cost. I have one going into my Tri 800. So I prepped my heli accordingly to handle the extra power, but I doubt I will use it that way. I like having it there but hope the extra efficiency helps more. I also am equipping my two flying Goblins with these motors.

One of the serious problems with Align motors has been their cans tend to run out of round, and they use substandard magnets and core material. Plus their factory bearings have pretty poor quality control and their shafts are soft and often times out of spec. So they tend to be hit and miss. Get a good one though, and they run sweet. Mine was a dog due to very poor mag quality I believe. I ran ceramics in it and a scorp shaft.

Also the kind of tie or wind at the end of the wire wrap contributes greatly to how they run. So we can build one that runs super efficiently and another more wasteful version that gives ultimate power.

Old cranky heli builder

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02-25-2014 08:46 PM  3 years agoPost 11
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

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Hacker A-50 'Turnado' 470KV
YEP120HV
RJX FS-0521 servos on swash, BLS276 on the tail.
Spartan Vortex
trillian,

It is refreshing to see a modest setup that complements the flying style of the owner.
Since your servos are HV, and RXs in general have no issues handling HV I would use a 2S Li-po.

I fly my Diabolo with nice componets but never overpower it. I do not want to generalize, but I've noticed some problems related with too much power on tap for casual flying and failing main gears. It varies, off course.

My Diabolo setup:
PowerJive 120 with buffer battery or Scorpion guard
Scorpion 4035 18t pinion, or lately Xera 4530 19t pinion for 700ish blades
and 15-16 pinion for 750mm blades.
Futaba BLS253, BLS251, 3SX Bavarian Demon

Depending on RPM I see flights between 5 and 9 minutes on 5A 12S.

I would not hesitate adding the tri head to my setup and worry I am lacking power in any way. I have logs for speed runs with that model pulling continous 4500watts with 6000 bumps with ease.

Although very nice I don't see the need for a Kosmik unless someone wants to drive a Triabolo 800 with high RPM (above 1600), in that case, the main gears will be taking a pounding, and flight times will be very brief.

If the pilot has smooth hands and good collective management no problems are likely to surface.
Sort of goes with the ol saying, with great power comes great responsability.

cheers

Santiago

Team Minicopter - PeakAircraft.com
bavarianDEMON- Team Kontronik - Scorpion Motors-

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02-26-2014 08:30 AM  3 years agoPost 12
Luvmyhelis

rrApprentice

Spokane, Washington. USA

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Well said!

Old cranky heli builder

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03-10-2014 06:46 PM  3 years agoPost 13
trillian

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London, UK

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Hey Frank,

Just wanted to mention, I have now maidened my Triabolo. For the initial flights I'm using a Castle Ice120HV in order to use the logging. (unfortunately I forgot to enabled the amp and watts! So, I will have to fly it again and then check the logs - plus this time I have the governor high mode set and the correct gear ratio so it will also log the headspeed).

Anyway, my initial flights went very well. Current draw seems really quite low with the Hacker motor. I will say though, it was lacking a little punch, just a tiny bit more guts would be nice. But I'm reserving judgement on this motor until I have tried it with the YEP because I have had problems in the past getting enough power with the Castle Ices, I don't know why it just seems very hit n miss with them.

It's hard to judge the headspeeds on this heli, what sounded kinda fast was probably 30% lower than it sounds. With the Castle ESC I don't expect to get more than 1700. (470KV motor and 18 tooth pinion)

Basically, it's early days yet but everything worked as it should, it flew rock solid even in quite gusty conditions.

RX power right now is direct off a 2s LiPo going Deans into two empty channels in the Vortex and this seems to work fine and keeps it very simple. I'll just see about adding some kind of backup.

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03-10-2014 10:44 PM  3 years agoPost 14
RogerRabbit62

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Thuerigen germany

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Go for 1000 1200 and 1400 Headspeed.
You will be astonished.

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03-10-2014 11:05 PM  3 years agoPost 15
trillian

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London, UK

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Hey Roger,

What pitch range do you have for such low headspeeds? I set up the FBL unit with limits at about 11 degrees but maybe it needs more if I were to run lower headspeeds?

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03-11-2014 06:56 AM  3 years agoPost 16
RogerRabbit62

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Thuerigen germany

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I am not flying a Triabolo but a little heavier 800 Tri Blade rigid.

The hovering pitch at 1200 is only 3.2-3.5 degree at 13 pounds weight.

1000 RPM feels like 1300 on a 700 2 Blade machine.
1200 is enough to fly TOCs on such a setup or a rolling circle,
1400 sounds like 1800 on a 700 2 Blade

I run 9 to 9.5 degrees maxpitch on that machine, but it is limited power, so you might be able to go to 10.5-11
Try speed runs and rolling circles or continouse piroflips rotating tail in main rotor direction.

I am running 130mm Tailblades but i do not know about the triabolos gears for the tail.

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03-11-2014 11:36 PM  3 years agoPost 17
trillian

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London, UK

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Thanks for the info, that's very interesting. I wish someone near me had the 800 or another Triabolo as I would like to see another one fly without me having to fly it

I'm going to do the next few flights with the Castle Ice and do a few full pitch climbouts and just the general stuff I do and then see what the amp peaks and headspeeds and temps are.

After that I'll fit the YEP which should be much more efficient at low throttle so I'll be able to try some really slow headspeed stuff.

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03-12-2014 06:54 AM  3 years agoPost 18
RogerRabbit62

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Thuerigen germany

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You are in London.
that is not really far from Frankfurt, roughly an hour flight.
from there it is a 1 1/2 hrs drive to here.

You are welcome for some testflights.

But as i told, i have 2 800x3 rigids, but non Diabolo.

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03-15-2014 08:30 AM  3 years agoPost 19
FRANK R

rrApprentice

Scarborough, ontario, canada

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TRIABOLO

Here's my build... Almost there!... Problems... wrong Pinion size was sent. Bought 8mm but received 6mm. ... Tail Hub got 6mm hole rather than 5mm, from the kit!... Still waiting for my parts!... Servos are on the way as well. ... So far the build is exiting except for the new Batt sliding tray!...won't slide in with the silicone tubes installed on the frame support. I have to remove the silicone tubes according to the notes which is in end part of the build ( Tray installation), rather than the stage during silicone installation. ( what a pain!)... Anyway here's some pics:

Demon in ME... Kosmik = Kostme

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03-25-2014 10:48 AM  3 years agoPost 20
Craigdieslemac

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Valdosta, Ga USA

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Looks good! I don't use a battery tray with mine.. The old oring method works for me.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

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