RunRyder RC
 8  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 4 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )     3      4     NEXT    >> ] 2669 views TOPIC CLOSED
HelicopterMain Discussion › Express or Pro Software
01-05-2014 02:07 PM  4 years agoPost 21
Retired2011

rrElite Veteran

Lee's Summit, MO

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Oh no! I absolutely agree that it's 100% a good idea to have express for those that don't need or want it.
In fact, I would see it as a marketing trick if so many were buying it and it was not useful. It is very useful. Well worth a measly 45 bucks.
Right you are!
My mistake, not you that said it, I went back to refresh my memory

I blame CRS disease!

Chet

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-05-2014 02:54 PM  4 years agoPost 22
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Bob, you said on this topic in the other thread:
I assure you I can substantiate what I said.
This is your thread, let's see it...

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-05-2014 03:08 PM  4 years agoPost 23
Peter Wales

rrElite Veteran

Orlando Fl

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You guys are very centered on your application for these devices and are not considering anything other than sticking it on a P&B heli and careering around the sky.

The basic model allows you to set your heli up to do that with the minimum of aggravation and that's how I set my Goblins up.

But my Goblin mechanics are all destined to go into a scale helicopter which requires phasing for the multiblade head and much more control over the way it flies than the single gain slider allows.

So, after I have my stock Goblin flying nicely, I fit a multiblade head to it and upgrade the software and start tuning with 3 sliders and other options such as expo. Then, when I am done, I have a good start on how my scale heli should be set up.

I expect an AP rig might need the same level of tuning if it used a V-bar

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR
01-05-2014 03:40 PM  4 years agoPost 24
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

This is your thread, let's see it...
Well on the way.
In the end it will show people that can't tell the difference just don't know how to use. At least I understand where it comes from though so it's a good thing already.

Laughingstill, let's have your vote.
-You cannot tell the difference between internal and external gov. Yes or no?

-You don't find any need for bank switching. Yes or no?

-You have never used logs to aid in maintaining and verifying good health of your heli. Yes or no?

-You have found no use for optimisers. Yes or no?

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-05-2014 04:01 PM  4 years agoPost 25
GScott

rrElite Veteran

Lewis Center, OH

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The flaw in your premise is not that someone could not tell the difference. It's obvious to anyone that has used Vbar that tweaking with Pro settings allows the users to get that final 5-10% of their setup. The point is the Express software provides the initial 90-95% that the majority are happy with. As someone pointed out earlier the price was dropped when the concept of Express and Pro were introduced with v5.0. Why should Mikado raise the price to include Pro to appease the minority of users? As it stands Vbar with Express is a completely viable product and IMHO still flies better than the competition. If you want the governor and other features then the option is there to purchase them but Pro is not necessary to make Vbar flyable.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-05-2014 04:09 PM  4 years agoPost 26
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Again, having express and pro is a wonderful thing. I agree fully. There is nothing wrong with making 2 different levels of software so one can choose what's best for them. I haven't seen too many people dispute that so lets move on from that topic.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-05-2014 04:20 PM  4 years agoPost 27
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Don't forget bank switching with pro.. I use that.
Craigdieslemac, what do you use bank switching for?

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-05-2014 06:16 PM  4 years agoPost 28
Jeff polisena

rrElite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Bank switching is another positive feature for people to customize flight conditions in flight and again if not needed as posted then express is good .
Mikado has made VBar I believe the most versatile unit on all levels .

IMO the vbar gov is one of the best , I prefer limiters for the fast response of throttle servo (nitro) .The vbar gov allows me to adjust so I get same response as a limiter without using external device . As stated all thru this thread and it's proven by all the responses vbar is as little or as much as you need if you learn all it abilities and in my opinion is endless .

You need to start with a correct mechanical setup to get the best performance out of any unit .When people say that one is better than another this plays a big part in their statements to me .

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-06-2014 12:09 AM  4 years agoPost 29
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yes, Jeff, it's a wonderful system. Agree.
As for what any other individual thinks, I prefer to go by "to each their own" rather than try to find their faults.

As for the topic here, well, some have suggested they can tell the usefulness of the pro upgrade. Others see none and others dodge the question...for what reason I do not know. I know I can easily tell the difference and the most pronounced is when you want to run outside the manufacturers realm of operating parameters...something Mikado has defined quite well for the general population. That's the most pronounced, but not the only thing.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-06-2014 11:24 AM  4 years agoPost 30
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The flaw in your premise is not that someone could not tell the difference.
Exactly, let's stick to one thing at a time. Let's not derail this thread…..makes it easier to understand without the confusion of 4 more added topics….

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-06-2014 01:00 PM  4 years agoPost 31
Craigdieslemac

rrKey Veteran

Valdosta, Ga USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I use the bank switching to test different changes to the setup very quickly and assigning them to a switch. Take for instance gyro gain. I can set up 3 different gains, depending on the switch used, and switch them independently no matter what flight mode I am in. Helps get the tail dialed in a lot faster than landing, resetting gain, taking off.. Once you get the gain you want, you can assign it to the flight mode.
This is only for people with OCD though, ever see your tail wag ever so slightly and it's not effecting flight and nobody else can see it? That's where I'm at.. Lol. But you can set all kinds of different rates and assign them to a switch, if you don't like it, switch it back.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-06-2014 07:27 PM  4 years agoPost 32
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Well, you can assign the tail gain to a switch with express also. But, you have the idea. Not much else.

How about things that are affected by running different head speeds. Or how about different flight styles even. Can anyone think of any parameters you might want to change?

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-06-2014 07:33 PM  4 years agoPost 33
Craigdieslemac

rrKey Veteran

Valdosta, Ga USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

That was a small example.. Like I said, you can set almost any rate to a switch so it can be changed at anytime durning any flight mode/operation. It really is a lot and most people may not use it, I don't even use the governor on my Diabolo.. But here because it has a kosmik.. I use the governor on my Goblin because I use a CC on it and they work together well.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-07-2014 06:23 PM  4 years agoPost 34
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Indeed, there can be some complexity to knowing how to use it. If you get that, only then can you see the value, naturally.

BTW, I thought they sorted the gov for the kosmik. Not yet?

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-07-2014 06:32 PM  4 years agoPost 35
Craigdieslemac

rrKey Veteran

Valdosta, Ga USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I don't really know to be honest, the internal gov on the kosmik is pretty simple. it keeps you at a percentage of throttle as opposed to a head speed, but you know where you are at thanks to Mr. Mel's calculator. I would imagine that is how the vbar works too, it just simplifies it by allowing us to choose our head speed and it calculates the throttle percentage and holds it there. It works great and I can hear it doing its thing when I mount my camera. The Kosmik, by far, is a simpler ESC/Gov to setup. Its like the difference between mac and PC though, they both get the job done, its all in how you want the work accomplished

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-07-2014 07:22 PM  4 years agoPost 36
rcflyerheli

rrKey Veteran

Granbury, TX USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'm still not sure what the overall gist of this thread is about. If it is simply pricing, then my question would be (based on the last advertised price at RH for out of stock Vbar) why does the $45.00 upgrade cause so much heartache? Now that RH has added the BD 3SX (@ $499.00) to their inventory, to me it doesn't make the cost of the pro upgrade so bad.

I know I like and use the bank switching function on all my setups, but not so the governor. I play around with the various settings until I get that I like. I have used the governor function, but the additional complexity of setting a separate sensor into the setup didn't seem worth the effort based on the kind of flying I do.

IMO, I believe Mikado providing a choice for the end users is a good thing.

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
Amain Team Rep

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-08-2014 12:51 AM  4 years agoPost 37
RyanW

rrKey Veteran

Edmond, Oklahoma

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'm still not sure what the overall gist of this thread is about.
Isn't that the truth!

Regarding the Kosmik- you use the Kosmik internal gov. It doesn't work with VBar gov.

-Ryan
Mikado USA, Kontronik, Opti-Power, MKS Servos

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-08-2014 01:48 AM  4 years agoPost 38
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If it is simply pricing,
I'm not sure where you got that from? No, not at all. I agree it's a small price for good functionality.

The question is in the 1st post:
"So, the question is, if you were handed 2 helis, one with vbar express and one with pro, can you think of ways you could tell the difference?"
you use the Kosmik internal gov. It doesn't work with VBar gov.
Thanks for the info.

Team POP Secret

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-08-2014 01:49 AM  4 years agoPost 39
rcflyerheli

rrKey Veteran

Granbury, TX USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yup, pretty much just like I do with the Castle governor.

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
Amain Team Rep

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-08-2014 02:09 AM  4 years agoPost 40
rcflyerheli

rrKey Veteran

Granbury, TX USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

How about things that are affected by running different head speeds. Or how about different flight styles even. Can anyone think of any parameters you might want to change?
Bob,

I do believe part of your initial premise isn't valid. If I were handed two identical birds, one with express and one with pro, there would have to be some knowledge of what the setup parameters were. I am sure either one could be set up so that in a taste test, you would not be able to tell the difference.

For me, the bank switching function is by far the best feature that I use (but I have to qualify that I haven't run an express at all), but with the different banks available, you can set up a heli so that is multiple flight style capable. You can have a heli that is docile and tame, say for FAI style flying, and with just a flick of a switch, have it set up just as fast as any competitive 3D in competition today.

In fact, that is what I am working on with my setups as I write this, changing the flight values in the different modes for comparison purposes. So if I were give a heli that I could change the bank and completely change the flight characteristics, and another that I could not, sure, I could immediately tell the difference and know which was which.

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
Amain Team Rep

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
WATCH
 4 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )     3      4     NEXT    >> ] 2669 views TOPIC CLOSED
HelicopterMain Discussion › Express or Pro Software
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 8  Topic Subscribe

Tuesday, May 22 - 8:23 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online