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HelicopterMain Discussion › CCPM HELP
12-18-2013 10:06 PM  3 years agoPost 1
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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trying to set up a ccpm head and have went by the ccpm instru. were using a JR8103 however we gota problem. the 3 servos are set across in a row in the front of the model,looking from the rear the left servo is hooked to ail. middle servo ele. right servo aux 1 per instruct. the ail moves in the right direction but the collective acts like the ele. and the ele. acts the collective, I tried switching 2 channels to no avail..am prolly doing something stupid but don't know what

CAUTION!!! politicians may be hazerdous to your well being

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12-18-2013 10:26 PM  3 years agoPost 2
RCHSF

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NC

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See if this helps.
https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t356590p1/

dkshema
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Cedar Rapids, IA

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If your 8103 is new enough, when you turn on the transmitter in the SYSTEM menu mode (holding down the two lower left-buttons while you apply power), there should be a SWASH TYP menu entry. That is where you would select CCPM mixing. There would be a second menu to allow you to enter the three swash mix numbers for elevator, aileron, and pitch. That menu is found in the setup menu (where you do pitch, endpoints, expo....).
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If your 8103 is old enough, it has the ability to do CCPM mixing, however the CCPM feature is a software feature that was shipped from the factory in the disabled state.
If your 8103 is that model, you can enable the CCPM swash mix feature without having to return the radio to Horizon.
-----
Use the following procedure:

To ENABLE CCPM mode, do the following:
1. select an unused model memory.
2. go to the model reset page for that model.
3. repeatedly press:
"+", gear(dn), "-", gear(up), "+", gear(dn), "-", gear(up)
until the screen turns black. It should take maybe
6 cycles of +-/gear to do it.
4. Once the screen is black, you can press UP.
Now you're in the correct screen. The first item is
SWASH and it should be INH. Press + or - to ACT
it.
Now press UP/DOWN simultaneously to get out of the
mode or just turn the TX off.
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In the instructions listed above the "+" is the "+" data key on the front panel. The "-" is the "-" key on the front panel. Gear up/Gear down -- that is the landing gear switch.
-----
Once you enable the CCPM feature, you should then be able to select 120 degree CCPM mixing, and the SWASH menu should be available to set the mix percentages for elevator, aileron, and pitch.
-----
The three servos will plug into channels 2, 3, and 6 of your receiver.
Channel 2 is Aileron
Channel 3 is Elevator
Channel 6 is Auxiliary 1, and also happens to be the collective pitch servo channel.
------
GENERIC CCPM SETUP:
Generic 120 degree CCPM swash control setup:
It's based on a JR radio -- as far as channel assignments, but for whatever brand radio -- the receiver plugs are labeled Aileron, Elevator, and collective pitch is usually the AUX 1 channel.
Typical 120 degree CCPM Setup:
Plug your servos into the correct channel on the RX. You have three servos controlling the swashplate. One connects to either the front or the rear of the swash, the other two are 120 degrees apart, on either side of the heli's centerline.
The servo connected to the ball that is in-line with the heli centerline (either fore, or aft of the MR shaft) is the "Elevator" servo, and plugs into the ELEVATOR channel of your RX (in a JR system the servo plugs into RX channel 3).
One of the remaining servos that controls one "side" of the swashplate (it doesn't really matter at this point) plugs into the Aileron channel of the RX (RX Channel 2 for a JR system).
The third servo which drives the other "side" of the swashplate plugs into the PITCH channel of the RX, generally the AUX 1 channel (channel 6 in a JR system).
Select the 120 degree swash CCPM mix in your TX. Set all trim settings to zero, no trim in any direction. Go to the SWASH mix menu, and set ELEVATOR, AILERON, and PITCH numbers to +65. This is only a starting point, we'll fix the SIGN of the number (+/-), and the SIZE of the number (bigger/smaller) later on down the page.
Ignore the direction of the servos for now. We're about to fix that:
Two servos in CCPM mix tilt the swash left and right. All three servos tilt the swashplate fore and aft.
Go to your servo reversing menu.
The two servos that tilt the swashplate for left and right will be the servos plugged into the aileron and pitch (auxiliary 1, probably) channel.
Using the servo reversing function, make these two servos move such that if you command a left turn, one moves up, the other moves down. Don't worry if they don't seem to move the correct direction, just make sure that they go in opposite directions when you move the stick left and right.
Now, move the stick for fore/aft cyclic. The servo connected to the elevator channel on the RX needs to have its direction set so that when the pitch and aileron servo move UP together, the elevator servo moves down (and when the elevator servo moves up, the other two move down). Use the elevator reversing function to make this happen.
Now you have the aileron and pitch servo moving in opposite directions for left and right stick, and you have the aileron and pitch servo moving in the same direction as each other, but in opposite direction of the elevator servo for the fore/aft function.
Don't touch the reversing switches again. Leave them where they are. We'll now fix the function direction so the swash moves in the right direction with regard to the sticks.
Go to the swash mix menu -- the one that lets you set the aileron, pitch, and elevator mix percentages.
Move the aileron stick left and right. If the swashplate moves in the correct direction, the aileron mix is OK. If the swash tilts left when you command right (backwards from the stick), then reverse the "polarity" of your aileron mix number. If you have +65 selected, change it to -65 (and if you have -65 selected, change it to + 65). Changing from "+" to "-" (or "-" to "+" reverses the aileron direction in a CCPM setup. The actual VALUE of the number increases (bigger number) or decreases (smaller number) the amount of travel you get from the associated function.
Move the elevator stick forward. If the swash tilts in the correct direction, fine. If the swash tilts the wrong direction (back when you command forward, for example), change the "polarity" of the elevator function -- if you have "-65" set, change it to "+65" ( and vice versa). This reverses the fore/aft cyclic function in a CCPM setup.
Move the throttle stick full open. You should get more positive pitch (leading edges of the blades tilt up). If the collective pitch is backwards (you get negative pitch when you command full positive) then reverse the "polarity" of the pitch mix -- if you have it set to "-65", set it to "+65" (and vice versa). This is how you reverse the pitch function in a CCPM setup.
Playing musical chairs with the servo reversing function at the same time you mess around with the swash mix will drive you nuts.
With a linear 0 to 100% pitch curve, set your collective stick to its midway setting (middle). The three servo arms controlling the swash should be in the middle of their travel range. Due to the way the splines on the servo shafts are designed, you'll have to try different positions of the servo arms on the shaft to achieve this. In addition, you may also need to mess with sub trim to get the servo centered with the collective at its midpoint. The arms are either going to be horizontal or vertical, depending upon servo arrangement.
The swash should be horizontal, and perpendicular to the MR shaft. Adjust the pushrods supporting the swashplate to make this happen.
At this setting, your blades should have ZERO pitch, the washout arms and the pitch mixing levers should be horizontal. Adjust pushrods to achieve this setting. The pushrods up on the head generally go in pairs. Make each pushrod in a pair the same length -- follow the helicopter build instructions to get the proper length of each pair of pushrods.
The swash should be in the middle of its up and down travel distance at this setting. Adjust the pushrods supporting the swashplate to achieve this setting.
So, with a linear pitch curve, at mid collective, the swash is level, the servo arms are in the middle of their travel range, the washout and pitch mixing levers are horizontal, the swash is in the middle of its travel range and the blade pitch is zero degrees (check both blades and adjust as necessary).
At this point you can select the various flight modes you are going to use and customize your pitch curve settings to match the flight mode.
If you need more overall COLLECTIVE pitch travel, increase the value of the number in the PITCH mix menu for the CCPM swash setting. If you need less overall pitch travel, decrease the value of the number in the PITCH mix menu for the CCPM swash setting.
If you need more Aileron CYCLIC pitch, increase the size of the AILERON number in the swash mix menu. If you need less Aileron CYCLIC pitch, then make the AILERON number in the swash mix menu smaller.
If you need more Elevator CYCLIC pitch, increase the size of the ELEVATOR number in the swash mix menu. If you need less ELEVATOR CYCLIC pitch, then make the ELEVATOR number in the swash mix menu smaller.

----------
TR setup:
At neutral, and neutral trim, the servo arm for the TR is vertical, in the middle of its travel. The bellcrank at the rear is 90 degrees to the tail boom as shown in the manual.
As for the RUDDER setup, on the Caliber when you command a RIGHT turn (will make the NOSE of the heli turn to the right), the servo must PULL the TR pushrod forward, toward the nose of the heli.
For Left turn, the TR servo must push the TR pushrod toward the rear of the heli.
Once you have the servo moving the correct direction, hook up the gyro. Pick up the heli and turn the nose to the LEFT while watching the TR servo arm. The gyro must command a RIGHT turn, pulling the TR pushrod forward, toward the nose. If it is backwards, and if the gyro has a reversing switch, change the direction of travel here. Go back and make sure the rudder stick still moves the servo in the correct direction.
Looking at the heli from its right side, nose to your right, tail boom to your left, the TR assembly turns COUNTER CLOCKWISE.
-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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12-18-2013 10:58 PM  3 years agoPost 3
Rafael23cc

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Junction City, KS

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I did not read the post above, I thought that a more direct and simple answer could be more benefitial. The answer could very well be in the post above.
the ail moves in the right direction but the collective acts like the ele. and the ele. acts the collective

Forget the location of the servos, as long as the link of the servo is connected to the proper side of the swashplate, and the cable is connected to the proper slot on the receiver, it should work.

Now, without seeing the problem, the most likely cause is a reversed function. Go to the swash mix menu screen and reverse the elevator and pitch functions by making them negative if they are positive or positive if they are negative. That should solve your problem. If not let us know.

It took me a while to understand the difference between reversing a servo, and reversing a function. I still have to see how the swashplate behaves and after a few attempts I figure it out.

Rafael

Keep your feet on the ground, but your eyes on the sky.
Team Heliproz.com

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12-19-2013 02:28 AM  3 years agoPost 4
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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fianally figured it out only concern is when I raise and lower the pitch the swash wants to lean a bit"wont stay flat" that wasn't addressed in that blurb, or maybe I didn't see it.

CAUTION!!! politicians may be hazerdous to your well being

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12-19-2013 02:41 AM  3 years agoPost 5
RCHSF

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NC

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In that case, you got some trim, or mixing still off somewhere.

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12-19-2013 03:00 AM  3 years agoPost 6
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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I mean it only does it at the very top and bottom of the pitch range

CAUTION!!! politicians may be hazerdous to your well being

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12-19-2013 03:10 AM  3 years agoPost 7
RCHSF

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NC

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ahh, ok, what's this on now?

I had this same radio before, very dependable radio.

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12-19-2013 03:14 AM  3 years agoPost 8
dcbusdriver

rrApprentice

Stephens City,VA ​-USA

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Unlevel swash at the extremes is due to unequal movement of the servos. What fbl system are you using if fbl? Depending on which one you are using there may be no need to address it or if fb then can be corrected by leveling the swash plate at the extremes using the servo end point functions.

beating the air into submission...........cool!

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12-19-2013 03:29 AM  3 years agoPost 9
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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flybar type, seems weird itll only do it at the top/bottom

CAUTION!!! politicians may be hazerdous to your well being

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12-19-2013 03:35 AM  3 years agoPost 10
dcbusdriver

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Stephens City,VA ​-USA

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If servos arms aren't all exactly at 90 and all 3 geometries exactly the same then it's quite common on fb models. Either recheck your geometry at center to equal out the control throws or just level the swash at the extremes using servo end points.

beating the air into submission...........cool!

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12-19-2013 03:54 AM  3 years agoPost 11
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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K will check it out tomorrow.....o

CAUTION!!! politicians may be hazerdous to your well being

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12-19-2013 05:08 AM  3 years agoPost 12
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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That long post quoted above has all you need to know in it, for getting your CCPM heli set up correctly.

This is an edited version, with some color highlighting and a few extra headings and spaces to make it more readable:

https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/p4325158/

That post actually tells you what to do if your swashplate is level at mid collective and zero degrees, but wanders off a bit at full low and/or full high collective. The solution is in your transmitter ENDPOINT/Travel settings.

Take some time to read the post, understand it, and you will never have to ask how to set up a CCPM system ever again.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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12-19-2013 06:33 PM  3 years agoPost 13
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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yes that was a very helpful writeup just took a while to digest, will check out that ATV thing today.

CAUTION!!! politicians may be hazerdous to your well being

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