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02-21-2014 05:43 AM  3 years agoPost 1041
GREYEAGLE

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Just because He is Stuck - Maybe he can link to the path : About Soul's and Dust

Why it is Not a Text Book and Should Never be regarded as one.

Sorry But Nothing is free - Cut a Few Bit's to make some home work - Forgets his pencil and never any paper . Sorry -
Pretty Deep but - will find where he got stuck and Un told those with the SPIRIT will remember the banter of word's, Exit's and Spin.

And at that time shall stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

But thou, , shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Then I looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

UBER COOL if you Knew !

And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

And he said, Go thy way, : for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Note This is O.T. We no longer do it do we How did they know ??

Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Know your position : Even on a HARD Road with a Shattered heart :

Come How Ever YOU ARE : Bring Your Key's Even the One you got Hidden IT's ALL GOOD ! the Water is FINE

Toss the Rock's Off with NO- Regret's - Bruises Heal :

How EVER YOU ARE

greyeagle

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02-21-2014 01:58 PM  3 years agoPost 1042
Hoggy42

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Irrational, stupid and foolish.
Yes Dennis I agree religion most certainly is.

Thomas
Surprise surprise your doing the good old creationist shuffle your the one that said anything well I pointed it out and you don't like it. So anyway your saying that no 2 things that occur in nature are identical that everything has a sort of randomness to it things are similar but not the same.

It's funny don't you think it seems that living things were not designed at all. The reason I say that is because things that are designed like aircraft and cars in most cases there are many that are identical. I mean we could split hairs about how they differ in some ways in the material from an atomic level upward but in your opinion that doesn't really matter only the finished product does right?

Living things give the powerful illusion of design but when you look you'll see they are not.
As far as the lizards go interbreeding of any species especially from different regions will always produce different offspring.
The lizards of Pod Mrcaru are not interbreeding with any other species. Do you ever pay attention?
Thisis no different then breeding dogs which is a very exact science these days.
Clearly you are confused with the salamander ring species I went through a while back and the greenish warbler which can no longer interbreed. Anyhow dogs or any other animal that we humans interfere with this is called unnatural selection is very interesting because these are the sorts of changes evolution predicts and considering the time frame that we have been breeding dogs we still wouldn't expect them to be anything other then dogs. Please roll out the Kent Hovind arguments for me Tom.

Steve9534
I'm not going to go through your whole text to debunk it. It's been done so many times but I am going to put forward this video for you to watch. Carl Sagan will explain it for you.

Watch at YouTube

When we do not know the answers we must be brave enough to say "We Don't Know" and if you insist that you do know then you must be able to prove it.

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02-21-2014 02:10 PM  3 years agoPost 1043
GREYEAGLE

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Put Evolution in the Evolution Camp : Stand on it's OWn ROCK see if it HOLD's

Don't steal or pilfer what is NOT Yours : SIte a 2500 record of AGES' of Evolution - You cannot Hoggy or it would be written - That Simple
Record's have been around even longer

Take it too a Written Record of Evolution : Why NOT ??
The Exit's of Responsibility - Take it Out of the BIBLE

DARWIN FAiled in DIVINITY : That's where he started - What he studied He knew the Monster -
after he let it out - Further " WHERE IS HE BURIED "

Where is the Finial Coverage of Responsibility :

Write the Foundational Book of Evolution : You will make a MINT - Many Have Take some with you

But take it too your Evolution Camp and see How many Stand on That ROCK

Put some Horse hair on a Monkey Toe Bone : Then 200 Lb's of Bondo and say SEE !!! Their is MAN

Many have tried to steal the ANVIL over time : It's Hilarious !

I Love watching them run down the Street with a 400Lb Anvil under their Arm Try to Steal It - Go for It

greyeagle

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02-21-2014 04:54 PM  3 years agoPost 1044
Thomas L Erb

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It seems you haven't considered something here you tell me to think carefully before it's to late. Is what you haven't considered that in the event God were to show me he did in fact exist is that I might well reject him. You see up until that point I cannot except god or reject god.
Of course I considered this fact , it would just be history repeating itself ,don't you see that? Christ is a real person from recorded history with out doubt. Yet you reject anything about him so why would you not do it now if you came face to face. That is why I told you to think carefully . Try again as it been done already, comeon be creative!

I find it interesting your failure to disclaim Steve's reply ! Why? I think it is from a pure scientific point one of the best post i have ever seen here. Inlight of scientific reasoning I urge you to respond if you dare.

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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02-21-2014 07:19 PM  3 years agoPost 1045
Dusty1000

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Dusty all your looking for is one verse written exactly to fit your answer so you can argue the point.
I am pointing out the fact that you will not concede that the Bible does not say that ''those who were saved by faith in God that were in Abrahams boosom went to heaven after Christ ascended into heaven.''

I know just as well as you do that you can't quote the Bible saying what you claim it says, because it doesn't say what you claim it says.
This is no different then the hundred of questions I have and can be raised toward evolution .
Nonsense. This question concerns whether a book says something, or whether it doesn't.
Some things have to be studied to be understood.
Either a book says something, or it doesn't.

The Bible says what I claim it says, which is why I can quote the verses that say what I claim the Bible says.

The Bible does not say what you claim it says, which is why you cannot quote any verses that say what you claim the Bible says.
It Is not just in one verse.
It doesn't matter how many verses it takes to say what you claim the Bible says. The Bible doesn't say what you claim it says, so you cannot quote any such verses.
I have given you a start already . Do a search and study the aspect and you will find the answer. Now you do have to study and understsnd future events as well .
No, you do not have to understand future events, when the point in question does not concern the future.

When in Rome....

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02-21-2014 07:26 PM  3 years agoPost 1046
Dusty1000

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I have several reasons to think He does. Daniel prophesied of the mission of Christ >500 years in advance. in fact the whole Old Testament temple services were an enacted prophecy of Christ who would die for the sins of the world. The services were begun more than a thousand years prior to His coming. The book of Isaiah predicted the coming, manner of work, and the type of death Jesus would die. Micah gives the place of his birth.
Jesus doesn't get a mention in the OT.
Peter predicted that near the end of this world's history, people would doubt that God would return and would claim that everything would continue as it had since the beginning. Daniel also foretold an increase in knowledge in the "time of the end".
So who do you think is correct? Daniel or Peter? Did everything continue as it had in the beginning, or was there an increase in knowledge?
The alternative to believing in God would be to believe that all matter came from nothing.
One alternative would be that a God, other than the God described in the Bible, created the universe.

Another alternative would be to concede that we haven't a clue what, if anything, created the universe.
A proposition I can't seem to get my head around. I don't know what exactly God is and how He might be, but matter I do have some understanding of, and I just don't see it coming into being on it's own. I also have a problem with nucleic acids and don't see a viable explanation for their existence through any unguided "natural" means. Even if they were somehow being produced, the odds against a chance formation of a nucleic acid chain coding for even the simplest life form exceeds all the postulated reactions that would have occurred in the history of the universe. Similarly, the molecules - nucleic acids and amino acids- that make up DNA and proteins respectively, both exhibit chirality. In other words they exist in mirror image forms, much like the right and left fenders on a car. They're very similar, but you can't interchange them. All nucleic acid chains found in living organisms, either RNA or DNA, are the "R" forms, while all proteins are "L" forms. Any "natural" scenario would be expected to yield nearly equal numbers of "L" and "R" forms, but that's not the case with living organisms. Again, the presence of chirality defies a logical explanation aside from an Intelligence who would have made it so.
So you think it would be beyond the ability of your God, to have created the processes by which stars and planets would come to form, and life would come to evolve etc, all at the moment of the Big Bang or whatever other creation event there was.

Just as a machine that completes a task after one press of a button, would be superior in design to a machine that requires further buttons to be pressed to complete the same task; a God that could create the universe in an instant, including all the processes by which life would come to evolve etc, would be a better designer than a God that had to take several different steps to complete the same task.

When in Rome....

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02-21-2014 07:56 PM  3 years agoPost 1047
Thomas L Erb

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This is no different then the hundred of questions I have and can be raised toward evolution .
Nonsense. This question concerns whether a book says something, or whether it doesn't.
. Why do you take this question out of context?
You do this all the time Dusty! Why?
I have given you a start already . Do a search and study the aspect and you will find the answer. Now you do have to study and understsnd future events as well .
No, you do not have to understand future events, when the point in question does not concern the future.
This is not true Dusty. I gave your start way before this . Pay attention better.

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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02-21-2014 08:24 PM  3 years agoPost 1048
Thomas L Erb

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So you think it would be beyond the ability of your God, to have created the processes by which stars and planets would come to form, and life would come to evolve etc, all at the moment of the Big Bang or whatever other creation event there was.
That's a pretty lame question considering your views Dusty. We may not know exactly why and how some things came into being but the order he did do it is fully described so at this point your questions just a fish.

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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02-21-2014 10:42 PM  3 years agoPost 1049
steve9534

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Dusty

Daniel is correct in that there is an increase in knowledge and Peter was also correct in stating that people at the end would claim that the natural processes on earth continue on as they have for eons. A quick glance around the room would confirm the former and any physics book will verify the latter. The rates of nuclear decay of the various elements are listed as "constants" and the entire system of atomic dating is dependent on the presumption that these rates have been unvarying over millions and sometimes billions of years.
I'm not sure why a single step vs multistep process would necessarily be evidence for or against the existence of God.
Regardless of what one believes about God, the fact still remains that regardless the enormous mass of the universe, we have no example of any of it coming from nothing. This also happens to be an answer to Carl Sagan's question as to why we don't just leave God out of the question. There also is the issue of how one answers the questions I posed in my first post if there is no Intelligence in the universe. Hoggy's assertions to the contrary, the scientific questions and mathematical calculations are not "refutable". They just are what they are. Creationists have their own problems to deal with and I have no good idea how to explain some of what I have read of atomic dating and the purported ages of various fossils. At the end of all things, one chooses to have faith. The Atheist, that the universe and all that is in it came about by chance from nothing, and the Creationist, that there is a God who made it. I chose to believe a long time ago that Jesus call to love one another and put God first in my life made sense. That I could trust there is a God who will help me now, and I hope for a better life after. Others will hope that they can live as they wish, and then hope there is nothing after. Either way, there are questions which remain unanswered and unanswerable. God bless you all. steve.

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02-22-2014 03:58 AM  3 years agoPost 1050
GREYEAGLE

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O.T. : Because we ARE a Judea Christian Nation: The Great Commandment

The Foundational Rock : That Simple - Still O.T.
Love the Lord Your God

These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess,

so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the Lord your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life.

Hear, Israel, and be careful to obey so that it may go well with you and that you may increase greatly in a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the Lord, the God of your ancestors, promised you.

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a]

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts.

Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.

Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.

Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.

When the Lord your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build,

houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied,

be careful that you do not forget the Lord, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

Fear the Lord your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name.

Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you;

15 for the Lord your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land.

Do not put the Lord your God to the test as you did at Massah.

Be sure to keep the commands of the Lord your God and the stipulations and decrees he has given you.

Do what is right and good in the Lord’s sight, so that it may go well with you and you may go in and take over the good land the Lord promised on oath to your ancestors,

thrusting out all your enemies before you, as the Lord said.

In the future, when your son asks you, “What is the meaning of the stipulations, decrees and laws the Lord our God has commanded you?”

tell him: “We were slaves of Pharaoh in Egypt, but the Lord brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand.

Before our eyes the Lord sent signs and wonders—great and terrible—on Egypt and Pharaoh and his whole household.

But he brought us out from there to bring us in and give us the land he promised on oath to our ancestors.

The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today.

And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness.”


Have We Stumbled and Fallen ? EXAMINE : This is STILL O.T. !

We Where Given Specific Detail Instruction's

What are Covenant's ? or Contract's ? or Agreement's ??

greyeagle

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02-22-2014 02:29 PM  3 years agoPost 1051
Hoggy42

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Thomas
Of course I considered this fact , it would just be history repeating itself ,don't you see that? Christ is a real person from recorded history with out doubt. Yet you reject anything about him so why would you not do it now if you came face to face. That is why I told you to think carefully . Try again as it been done already, comeon be creative!
Lose one argument move onto another by going back to an older comment. Here's the deal I am willing to concede that Jesus Christ existed now please pay attention because this is important. The only reason I am willing to concede this point is because it is plausible that a man with the name Jesus Christ could have existed it's possible he was very charismatic it's possible he said he was god and it's possible that people believed him it's possible he didn't like the brutality of the middle east at the time and spoke out and tried to change the way people thought and lived. It's possible that for his trouble he got nailed to a tree and died.

I am however not willing to concede that he was a god as there has never been proof of one ever! I am not willing to concede that his mother was a virgin or that he raised the dead or healed the sick with magic. Or came back from the dead, Look I'm not willing to concede anything supernatural.

It's the same thing with Mohammed may have existed probably had a child wife and was illiterate. Never rode a winged horse to heaven.

So again Tom I would like to reiterate the point I have not rejected god I can't by definition reject something for which there is no evidence (AT ALL) to show it exists. I can reject your claim that it exists. Do you understand this?
I find it interesting your failure to disclaim Steve's reply ! Why? I think it is from a pure scientific point one of the best post i have ever seen here. Inlight of scientific reasoning I urge you to respond if you dare.
Ok I think this comment of yours shows just how short sighted and limited your understanding is not just of science I mean in general your understanding. If you go back and read Steve's post again he touches on Physics (Big Bang) Chemistry (nucleic acids) I think he's asserting abiogenesis and then Biology (RNA or DNA) he has written up a very nice post about the complexities of these things and how unlikely it is. basically that he doesn't understand how it can have happened without some outside intelligent force driving it. Well unfortunately that doesn't explain anything he has made a claim for what he believes and that is all. Is all I am going to say now is that not understanding Physics Chemistry and Biology is not proof god exists.

Steve
the fact still remains that regardless the enormous mass of the universe, we have no example of any of it coming from nothing.
Late last year I was lucky enough to meet Lawrence Krauss he has a book called A Universe From Nothing. Now is what I would first like to stress that it is not proof of the universe coming from nothing it is however a plausible hypothesis of the universe coming from nothing it may one day be confirmed or rejected or the question may remain unanswered forever. That does not mean we should stop looking or insert a god whenever we can't answer a question.

Steve I appreciate your honestly in your last post it is refreshing for a change to see someone of faith on this forum talk in terms of not being 100% certain. Would you indulge me in private if you wish are you a creationist or more of a Christian who accepts scientific findings it's always nice to know where someone stands.

Oh and Thomas I remembered last year when I met Lawrence Krauss I posted a photo of me with him you must have missed it otherwise you would have had a better idea of my age.

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02-22-2014 04:50 PM  3 years agoPost 1052
steve9534

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Hoggy

Thanks for the kind reply. I'll try to respond in kind. Jesus said His followers could be distinguished by their love. I'd be happy to discuss more in private, but I don't really have anything to say that I don't feel comfortable saying in public. I do believe in Evolution as a process and the evidence for it is overwhelming. The good defenders of the faith who don't accept it have a serious problem in explaining how a loving God would have made the snake's venom, the crocodile's jaws, the tiger's teeth, etc., etc.
i would like to comment on your statement that "not understanding physics, chemistry, and biology is not proof God exists". I studied biology in college and then went on to become a medical doctor. I don't want to seem arrogant, but I received nothing but A's in my college physics, organic chemistry, and biochemistry classes and was in the top 10% of my medical school class in biochemistry. I would argue only those who don't understand chemistry, physics, and biology are the ones who tend to minimize the difficulties with abiogenesis. I need to go to church. Happy Sabbath. steve

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02-23-2014 12:08 AM  3 years agoPost 1053
Thomas L Erb

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I posted a photo of me with him you must have missed it otherwise you would have had a better idea of my age.
Sorry hoggy ,I saw it but you look aged beyond your wisdom . that's why I questioned it

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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02-23-2014 02:09 AM  3 years agoPost 1054
GREYEAGLE

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Gosh I thought it was pretty pride full :

Two Guy's mopping up at 3.AM - Flipping chairs, finial wipe down of the top and turning the fan's off. Looked like a slow nite - No Traffic, or a Low Scoring nite

Some form of Internal Struggle was Definitely taking place

greyeagle

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02-23-2014 02:25 PM  3 years agoPost 1055
Hoggy42

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Steve
I'm glad your happy to talk openly and in support of evolution. I only asked because I have had conversations with others in private who do not wish to be involved and do not want to have backlash from their creationist counterparts. I respect that and have not and will not revel names.
Jesus said His followers could be distinguished by their love.
There is no doubt that Jesus supposedly said many good things the trouble is that the bible says many good things and many bad things many followers pick and choose what they like. While rational followers may disregard old out-dated parts others may and do follow them for these people the bible gives them the ultimate authority for their hate I think the best example I can give you of this is westboro.
i would like to comment on your statement that "not understanding physics, chemistry, and biology is not proof God exists". I studied biology in college and then went on to become a medical doctor. I don't want to seem arrogant, but I received nothing but A's in my college physics, organic chemistry, and biochemistry classes and was in the top 10% of my medical school class in biochemistry.
Point taken. The way I put it was not the right way for you clearly your going to have a better understanding then most. The main point is still correct though which is that if we don't understand something either as a race or an individual regardless of how complex the problem we should not state it as proof of God. Now if you are saying that because of the complex nature of the universe and the beauty of life, you have faith that a god did it and that's your personal opinion well that's fine. So long as you don't claim it to be proof of a god let alone your god.
I would argue only those who don't understand chemistry, physics, and biology are the ones who tend to minimize the difficulties with abiogenesis.
I've not seen too many people trivialize the difficulties with abiogenesis not doubt there are some. Of course it's difficult seeing as no one has recreated it yet. The ideas and experiments are fascinating though and one day one of those experiments maybe successful. One thing that we all should be able to agree on however is that it did happen I'll be very interested to see if anyone disagrees? I am happy to say though that I don't know how it happened.

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02-23-2014 02:26 PM  3 years agoPost 1056
Hoggy42

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Sorry hoggy ,I saw it but you look aged beyond your wisdom . that's why I questioned it
You can do better Tom

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02-23-2014 03:06 PM  3 years agoPost 1057
Thomas L Erb

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One thing that we all should be able to agree on however is that it did happen
What have you been reading? No proof ,no successful results in years of testing and yet you claim it as an absolute? Then say I am a fool for having faith! Take the rose colored glasses off and stop the smoke enima treatments .

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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02-23-2014 03:11 PM  3 years agoPost 1058
Hoggy42

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What have you been reading? No proof ,no successful results in years of testing and yet you claim it as an absolute? Then say I am a fool for having faith! Take the rose colored glasses off and stop the smoke enima treatments .
Said it would be interesting if anyone disagrees. Thomas it happened. Or are you saying that even a divine creator couldn't do it? are you sure you exist?

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02-23-2014 03:47 PM  3 years agoPost 1059
steve9534

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Hoggy

I think abiogenesis is where we part ways philosophically. The odds are so enormous and the difficulties so great, that I don't believe it ever did or could happen, but again, it's a point of faith. I would also say that w/o abiogenesis, I'm not sure how one escapes the conclusion that there is some Intelligence out there, and so I use it as an evidence for the existence of God.
One of the many messages of the Bible is that force as a method to change people's hearts and minds does not work. I believe the point needed to be made, but the examples given in the Bible of the flood and of Sodom and Gomorrah clearly show that the use of force did not make the survivors better people. Love changes people. The great love of God in sending His Son to live, to be beaten, whipped, spat on, and finally nailed to a cross for you and for me is the motivation for change. Nice to have a civil discussion. Happy flying. steve.

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02-23-2014 07:18 PM  3 years agoPost 1060
GREYEAGLE

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Hoggy It's Simple:

UNTIL you WISH to Hear : You will NOT Listen

It is NOT a TEXT Book : It Never WILL BE - Not Meant too be

The Wall Many cannot crawl over :
Why so many do not understand the parables - Their is a Reason For it

The 1st half they are looking for him

THEN

450 -500 year's of rise of Empires : Waiting and Pestilence of MAN

THEN

The 2nd Half: Not ONLY has he arrived: Many Find HIM

Those in the 1st Half actually are responsible for Closing IT !!!

He is Sacrificed Willingly and KNEW it : Part of the Occupation

He Arose : The Book is Still OPEN and marching forward.

Why MANY must experience what is known as a HARD PROVIDENCE - Before they will Listen : Stinking Sad as it does not have to be that way.

re: Why Most lesson's are ONLY learned the Hard Way for many

greyeagle

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