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HelicopterBeginners Corner › Throttle position related swashplate dissymmetry
08-02-2013 12:41 AM  4 years agoPost 1
heli-cuda

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Vestavia Hills, AL - USA

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Attempting to explain the puzzle: ... with the motor connected to the esc or disconnected, either way, view orientation from overhead and rear, on a 120-120-120 three servo set up with aft servo in command of fore and aft pitch, ... when throttle is increased the swashplate attitude dips toward the longitudinal 02:00 o'clock position, the left side (port) servo elevates, the pitch servo elevates slightly less, and the right side (starboard) servo dips. ... Rolling down the throttle, the swashplate centers and levels to a flat (zero degree) MR blade pitch angle. ... Harrumph.

Thanks!!!!

Mayday!!! Mayday!!! Heli-Cuda, an (adult) beginner, would like help with a throttle position related swashplate dysymmetry skull buster of a puzzle, ... equipped with a Storm 450 FBL w/ 60A Hobbywing Platinum esc, Helicox TG-1 three axis gyro, FlySky TH9X tx & matching 9 channel rx, upgrade Tarot MR head, upgrade Tarot TR assembly, Align 500 size skid assembly. THANKS!!!!

This is the core model, I have. http://www.helipal.com/storm-450-3g...dition-rtf.html

It does this perfectly with zero throttle. It used to, also, do this with any throttle. ...

Watch at YouTube

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08-02-2013 01:02 AM  4 years agoPost 2
heli-cuda

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Should I do this ...

Watch at YouTube

... again?

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08-02-2013 02:12 AM  4 years agoPost 3
heli-cuda

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I did the throttle set proceedure posted on youtube from the previous comment here. No change. No remedy.

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08-02-2013 05:04 PM  4 years agoPost 4
RCHSF

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It's all in the swash mix menu, and servo revering.

Swash mix,

Something like this, example only.

+60
+60
-60

Then play with channel reversing menu.

Ail
Ele
Pit

Rev/Nor one or the other, try one thing at a time.

I know it's a head buster but it's between those two areas.

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08-02-2013 05:25 PM  4 years agoPost 5
heli-cuda

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Thank you RCHSF, Sir!

I haven't tried this kind of +/- swash mixing, yet.

Will comply. Will advise, asap.

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08-02-2013 05:35 PM  4 years agoPost 6
RCHSF

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On the swash mix, all three maybe any where between 55 and 60, this desinates how much travel is in the swash up and down. All three could be 60, 60, 60 all +, or one may need to be (reversed -) hard to say, just depends on how it's setup. Because Ail and Pitch servos can be plugged in either port. Those two can be swopped around if all else fails. But Ele always go's in ele port.

To be safe unplug two of your ESC wires from the motor, if you haven't done it already.

And leave the main blades off till after you know everything is working right, far as throttle and all.

I even remove tail blades they can chew you up fast too.

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08-02-2013 07:53 PM  4 years agoPost 7
heli-cuda

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Vestavia Hills, AL - USA

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RCHSF,

Oh yes!!! I DID and DO remove MR blades, as well as disconnect 2 cables into the ESC. TR blades are manageable.

new current status:

1. on reverse settings in tx

ail = normal, ele = normal, thr = reverse, rud = normal, pit = normal

2. swash mix in tx

pit = zero zero zero, ail = +45, ele = +45

3. throttle curve in tx

L = zero, 25% = 25%, 50% = 50%, 75% = 75%, 100% = 100%

4. pitch curve in tx

L = 50% = flat blade pitch, 1 aka 25% throttle position = 55%, 2 aka 50% throttle position = 65%, 3 aka 75% throttle position = 80%, H aka 100% throttle position = 100% blade pitch

5. DR & EXP in tx

DR 80% EXP 20% in all rud, ail, & ele

6. gyro sensor in tx

ACVS status active, uprate 80%, downrate 80%

These settings have corrected the swashplate dissemmytry with throttle-collective input, as well as sweetened and softened cyclic response. The Helicox TG-1 3GX gyro then reversed it's auto responses, meaning that when the heli was rolled or pitched one way it leaned the swashplate even more in that direction, but I was able to use my programming box, enter the gyro and correct that. Meanwhile, I eased the tail gyro gain a bit, because it was neck breaking jaw jolting snappy.

Everything is looking rosey, except that with throttle increase, the swashplate does not rise collectively. Thinking back to the swash mix with the pitch @ zero zero zero, any change in that setting +/- again yeilds adverse dissymmetry of the swash coincidental with throttle increase.

Still stumped, I am with this skull buster, but you've gotten me unstuck this much!!!! That's astronomical!!!!

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08-02-2013 07:59 PM  4 years agoPost 8
RCHSF

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Yeah your swash mix for pitch should match Ail & Ele. If set to 0 you have no pitch of the blades, meaning the swash want move up/down.

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08-02-2013 11:13 PM  4 years agoPost 9
heli-cuda

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The swashplate dissymmetry works as follows per the shown mixing parameters.

pit +010, ail +060, ele +060 swash dips toward 01:30 o'clock position of heli'slongitudinal axis, ... or if the nose were heading toward magnetic north heading 360, the swash dips toward heading 045

pit -010, ail +060, ele +060 swash dips toward 07:30 o'clock position, ... or if the nose were heading toward magnetic north heading 360, the swash dips toward heading 225

Any increase in collective pitch value +/- the swash still dips toward either 01:30 o'clock aka heading 045 or toward 07:30 o'clock aka heading 225 ... the greater the pit value +/- the deeper or steeper or faster the 045 or 225 heading attitude.

I have reprogrammed the Helicox TG-1 3axis gyro with it's G-BOX programmer to factory default settings, then further programmed for specific parameters.

In the tx servo reverse settings ... currently all are normal. I have reversed one at a time, and some two at a time. Certainly the aileron & elevator settings are good. I reversed the throttle servo once with the motor connected, and had sudden full throttle. The pitch rhymes with a 5 letter word that starts with b ends with h and has an itc in the middle.

I need a glass of wine, or three.

How does one ascertain, as to when a gyro is fried?

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08-02-2013 11:43 PM  4 years agoPost 10
RCHSF

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If this is FBL you need to set the radio for 1 servo 90 degree swash.

And if your not seeing a lot of travel from the gyro when moving the sticks thats normal.

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08-02-2013 11:54 PM  4 years agoPost 11
heli-cuda

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By Jove, THAT'S BRILLIANT! It is FBL. I bet you nailed it!

Will advise, asap.

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08-03-2013 12:19 AM  4 years agoPost 12
heli-cuda

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Dang it, and that makes/made so much sense, but ...

I set the tx for a 4 quadrant 90 degree swash. (I don't know how, or if there even is a way to set for one swash servo @ 90, and it isn't obviously apparent in my tx.)

Set the swash mix for +60 +60 +60 and pitch -60 ail +60 ele +60 ...

and had the same result with the swash tilting toward heading 045 or heading 225

This is a wooly booger.

"Alright! Fight for it!" That's what one of my heli ATP/CFIs said, while as a student pilot I was working to hover and hover taxi in crosswinds, and didn't want to surrender the controls on a very gusty day. It slowed my Hobbs meter pay and log book time progress not training in exclusively still air, but compared to the fast pace and bragadoccio other still air only student pilots in winds and gusts, they all bowed to me. Ride 'em cowboy!

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08-03-2013 12:35 AM  4 years agoPost 13
RCHSF

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Whats the model number on the front of the tx? WFly what?

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08-03-2013 12:38 AM  4 years agoPost 14
heli-cuda

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Now using a FlySky FS-TH9X tx w/ FS-R8B rx.

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08-03-2013 12:44 AM  4 years agoPost 15
RCHSF

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This it? If so watch video, disregard anything about 3 servo 120 ccpm, and set yours to 90 degree 1 servo. Far as I know all FBL Gyro's tx is set to 1 servo 90 degree. Swash Mix/Travel always set around 50 to 60 all three same, sometimes one, either Ail, or Pitch maybe reversed, along with Channel reverseing. It takes alot of work to figure these things out sometimes. If you get to point your Pi**ed take a break and come back to it latter.

Watch at YouTube

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08-03-2013 04:43 PM  4 years agoPost 16
heli-cuda

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I have watched this a few times. I watched it before buying my FS TH9X tx and FS R8B rx. It seems like a really good tx for the cheap.

Previously, I did have it set for a 120, 120, 120 swash. It definitely works better as a 4 quadrant 90 degree swash on my little bird.

Still trying to get my brain untangled, here.

I am reminded of one of my FW and H ATP multi engine and multicraft rated instructor's comments, when he got back from 6 weeks of qualifying for a cargo jet. Maybe, it was for a Boeing 727. He said it was 6 weeks of paying full price for completely useless humiliation, then you took the check ride and either passed or failed. He said, he could have ground schooled and sim schooled himself better and cheaper. ... At least at this point the humilation part is working for me and this swash dissymmetry problem.

I'm rewatching this Mikey's RC video tutorial with my tx in hand.

Thanks for not giving up!

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08-03-2013 05:53 PM  4 years agoPost 17
RCHSF

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I cant see why, or how any FBL controller can work on anything but 1 servo 90 degree. Because the, well all the top name brand 3-axis fbl gyros does the 3 swash servo mixing in the fbl unit itself. Tx only sends commands for each ch and the fbl unit does the rest.

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08-03-2013 09:01 PM  4 years agoPost 18
heli-cuda

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Your last comment makes perfect sense, too. When the Helicox TG-1 was working well, it worked very well.

After watching the video and thinking a while, I'm pretty sure my situation isn't in my tx. I've got the tx in one of the two normal 90 degree swash settings. My throttle and pitch curves look like Mikey's, very docile. Weirdly, in the tx swash mix settings the ele has disappeared. ... With the gyro programmer, I set the gyro in 140 degree swash setting. This combination has gotten the best results, so far. Close, but no cigar.

There's still a throttle position related swashplate dissymmetry bug in it somewhere. While off throttle with neutral cyclic the swash sits perfectly level and responds properly to cyclic inputs, as well as automatically responds properly to fuselage pitch attitude, yaw, and roll.

As soon as I raise the throttle lever the swashplate rises but begins to tilt toward 045 aka 01:30 o'clock. I can reverse servos, but that only reverses the swash dissemmetry, or completely reverses the cyclic input to swash output response.

I'm taking a break. The guy in China that sold me the heli suspects that the gyro program blitzed and deleted for some reason, (probably from me monkeying around with my Wfly tx), and now the program box for it is the key.

I'm pretty cross eyed by now. I feel like the detective that is trying to solve a crime by chasing down all the wrong suspects first.

At least my RealFlight 6.5 sim is working, and my silly 450 heli looks cute.

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08-03-2013 10:10 PM  4 years agoPost 19
RCHSF

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When the tx is set to 90 degree 1 servo, their is no swash mix setting. Not needed. Only when you select 3 servo 120 does the swash menu appear.

If you set the radio to 90 degree 1 servo, leave it their. Thats right. Any other problems is in the 3-sxis gyro. You dont even need to do any servo revering in the tx. Tell you what just rest the model in the tx, start all over, and only set radio to 1 servo. All the prgramming is done in the fbl gyro.

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08-04-2013 01:22 AM  4 years agoPost 20
heli-cuda

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The paper instructions that came with my Helicox TG-1 G-BOX multifunctional programmer state in the ...

Model type - Select the swashplate type. There are five types.

"Heli Normal", "Heli 120", "Heli 135", "Heli 140", "Heli 90".

When I connect my G-BOX to my Helicox TG-1, the options for Model Type select are:

"Heli Normal", "Heli 120", "Heli 140", "Quad Rotor", "Quad X", "Aero Normal", "Aero Delta".

___________

My G-BOX multifunction programmer does not give an option for a "Heli 90".

"Heli 140" gives the best results, but still not straight swashplate results with throttle increase. I have tested the other available options, "Heli Normal" and "Heli 120".

____________

In my FlySky TH9X transmitter, there is not an option for a 90 degree 1 servo swash configuration. There are two different 90 degree swash config options. I have tried them both. In consideration of your latest comment I will recheck and test both 90 degree swash settings in the tx. ... Returned to edit here: of the swash type settings in the tx I have tried both 90 degree option as well as the appropriate 120 option. All results are equal. The same as before. This leads me to suspect that my bug is in my gyro's internal programming options.

Meanwhile, I have messaged the tech support team at Helipal.com inquiring into the discrepancy between my paper instructions and my actual programmer options, asking them to see if there is a programmer available with the "Heli 90" option.

Maybe, this is it.

Fingers crossed.

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HelicopterBeginners Corner › Throttle position related swashplate dissymmetry
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