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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
Helicopter
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Thunder Tiger
Raptor E700 › e700 build
07-31-2013 04:08 AM  4 years agoPost 61
Kloss08

rrApprentice

Bradford PA USA

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I could post a short vid tomorrow.. This thing is very quiet and feels extremely light.

Team Futaba
Team Pulse Batteries
Enjoy it today

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08-02-2013 07:11 PM  4 years agoPost 62
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Few friends at Ircha are looking at this machine common report back was it appeared to have messed up geometry. Can anyone here confirm what kind of numbers the vbar is giving them to achieve 8Deg cyclic, 12/12 pitch and cyclic ring # that will help me to know if its visual or actually "off".

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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08-02-2013 07:33 PM  4 years agoPost 63
DannyvG

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Netherlands

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I cant find it at the moment but I remember Nick saying that the kit has different length control balls for the swash to get optimal resolution for different FBL systems. However the manuals also doesnt seem to mention it...

But I must say that it is just a limitation of the vbar that it needs a specific geometry. The brain for example doesnt need a specific geometry but scales the gains accordingly. Also I think the idea of the vbar is based on older servos with low resolution and isnt relevant anymore with todays digital high resolution servos.

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08-02-2013 07:40 PM  4 years agoPost 64
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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You my friend are very mis informed as to vbar. I've personally installed and tuned and flown every FBL system there is in market up to date and the one that best demonstrates geometry through the setup process is vbar. So your information is old not the vbar.
It's not a limitation its an "indication". As far as limitation the vbar is far from being limited its more universal with more real options then anything else anyhow..

Anyhow looking for numbers not opinions on FBL systems...

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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08-02-2013 07:50 PM  4 years agoPost 65
DannyvG

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Netherlands

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My point was that the vbar puts way to strict demands on the supposed ideal geometry. But imho its more a limitation of the vbar that it wants a specific geometry.
And FYI I have owned vbars up to 5.3 so misinformed?

But will see when somebody posts the numbers.

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08-02-2013 07:52 PM  4 years agoPost 66
Ghostrider

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San Diego, CA

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My point was that the vbar puts way to strict demands on the supposed ideal geometry. But imho its more a limitation of the vbar that it wants a specific geometry.
But will see when somebody posts the numbers.
I respectfully disagree. I have helped numerous people set up there FBL systems and when the geometry is correct, it makes all the difference in the world. The beauty of V-bar is that it informs you when you are not in line so to speak. Other systems don't. They all will work but when the geometry is set up properly, it's truly night and day!

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08-02-2013 07:52 PM  4 years agoPost 67
BobOD

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New York- USA

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isnt relevant anymore with todays digital high resolution servos.
It's interesting you bring that up. Going back years (4 or 5 about) I often felt that there has been too much resolution taken away from collective to give it to cyclic control. Through my testing, I've found that the issues definitely seem highly servo related (resolution and speed). Slop plays a roll as well. It's not so much the controller as that should not care as long as it's adjusted accordingly. Unless the controller itself has inadequate resolution of course.
Anyway, I have the ability to adjust the cyclic resolution and quite frankly, I find the best geometry doesn't exactly match the historical belief...at least for me anyway.

Team POP Secret

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08-02-2013 07:57 PM  4 years agoPost 68
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Sam has it right. And Geometry is everything actually. How the head is designed, the layout from frame up truly decides how a machine will fly in the common hobbyists hands. This doesent come all from a FBL unit of any brand vbar as Sam states shows you "where things are at" and that's that. Everything else "who knows" and some folks don't like to know, well I do and I've seen and noted how those numbers mean things in the real world and how it translates to what you see in the air doing maneuvers. Nick can fly a poop on stick so I just hope someone will share their numbers. If its exact layout as e720 then honestly I have no concern as the e720 is fine. Just wanting to confirm is all...

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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08-02-2013 07:57 PM  4 years agoPost 69
DannyvG

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Netherlands

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I respectfully disagree. I have helped numerous people set up there FBL systems and when the geometry is correct, it makes all the difference in the world.
you mean vbars or other systems, or specifically the brain/ikon?
Because the brain scales the gains dependant on the geometry so it doesnt need a specific geometry. While the vbar wants you to get close to 100 for 8degrees cyclic and when you are off it will fly different.

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08-02-2013 08:02 PM  4 years agoPost 70
Ghostrider

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San Diego, CA

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No. My experience is not technical but real life experimenting. For example, my MA Whiplash. I had to try different lengths on the swash balls to change geometry. I would try the stock ones and go fly. Come back and swap out and try again with longer ones. It's truly a different feeling helicopter when in the sweet spot if you will. At least with my trial and error.

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08-02-2013 08:05 PM  4 years agoPost 71
DannyvG

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Netherlands

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With the vbar?

I sure believe it changes the way it flies. You simply change the mechanical gain and interaction. But the mechanical gain can be compensated with fbl-gain. The interaction is a different subject.

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08-02-2013 08:26 PM  4 years agoPost 72
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Good grief nevermind ..have fun not knowing or caring...if what ya have suits ya great. I'm interested again in the numbers hopefully someone will know till then take care.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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08-02-2013 08:32 PM  4 years agoPost 73
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Because the brain scales the gains dependant on the geometry so it doesnt need a specific geometry. While the vbar wants you to get close to 100 for 8degrees cyclic and when you are off it will fly different.
That is really just 2 different ways of saying the same thing. They are both doing more or less the same. If your geometry is such that you set the vbar to 75 instead of 100 (for example)with 8 degrees, it is not off per say. The scale is simply different and you've adjusted for it. Both controllers are number crunchers so this would only matter if the resolution of the number cruncher was low or the programming poor...any other reason would be external factors like servo precision and play in the system.
Agreeing with your initial statement, I've found that keeping the last 2 optimal makes a 25% change in cyclic resolution much less important...but there's a number of factors involved. Will be different for different controllers and different helis. In other words, it all comes down to how it flies.

Team POP Secret

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08-05-2013 02:53 AM  4 years agoPost 74
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Anyone that has reported that the geometry on the model is "off" is ill advised and informed. Nick more or less devoted 6 months of his life in the design of this model optimzing the control geometry to correctly satisfy the needs of Vbar, the 750, and the Beast X with only a need for a swash inner ring ball change, and I can say for an unequivolcal fact that Nick has forgotten more about FBL implementation that most will ever know. Geometry is EVERYTHING for a correctly flying FBL model. VBar assures it their way, and I can tell you that a 750 absolutely needs at least its 9-10D of cyclic to fly well.
The E700 control system is also extremely linear. Each increment of stick movement near zero collective produces the exact same amount of pitch change as it does near the extremes of the collective range. Control interaction at the ends of the collective range is very minimal as well, a charaterisitic that is less possible with direct link systems.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

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08-05-2013 02:59 AM  4 years agoPost 75
Kloss08

rrApprentice

Bradford PA USA

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I'm not flying the V bar on my my 700 but mostly everyone else at ircha was. I am not sure of the numbers in the vbar but I can say Nick has mostly likely used every setup imaginable to come up the final product. I'm backing Ben on this one..

Team Futaba
Team Pulse Batteries
Enjoy it today

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08-05-2013 03:04 AM  4 years agoPost 76
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Great info Ben, thanks!

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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08-05-2013 07:02 PM  4 years agoPost 77
ttrip06

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Central Pa

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We were flying CGY750 in our model and have no issues with it. I think TT and Nick did a fantastic job on this model. Now I just need to sneak out when my son is working so I can get a flight on it.

Tim

Tim Tripoli

Team Futaba, Rail Blades
Team Crash
ProggressiveRC

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08-06-2013 07:18 PM  4 years agoPost 78
ben_beyer

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Canyon, TX

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Any news on a different canopy?

I love the design of the 700E and I am probably going to get one. I recently purchased a Synergy E7 and that's because I didn't know anything about the E7SE or the TT 700E. They literally were released a week after I got the E7 kit. The only thing I don't like is the canopy as I'm worried about not being able to see it.

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08-06-2013 08:54 PM  4 years agoPost 79
Kloss08

rrApprentice

Bradford PA USA

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I didn't think I'd be able to see it either..so far I am extremely pleased with this machine. Surprisingly I can see it quite well. I think different colors would help but so far the stock canopie is fine.. I can't wait to see some hot colors though

Team Futaba
Team Pulse Batteries
Enjoy it today

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08-07-2013 08:03 PM  4 years agoPost 80
ben_beyer

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Canyon, TX

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I run the iKON flybarless system so is there expected to be much effect from running a 140 degree swash setting in the flybarless unit while the heli is set up on 135 degree?

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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
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Raptor E700 › e700 build
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