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HelicopterPhotos and Videos › 300amp ESC
08-02-2013 07:54 AM  4 years agoPost 21
Luvmyhelis

rrApprentice

Spokane, Washington. USA

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Larger Heli esc's are out there guys.
Take a look here, I almost bought one of these a while ago. YGE HV 320!
http://www.prostarhobby.com/product-p/yge320hv.htm

I have personally popped a few HV120s this summer and am now running a YGE HV 160 with sink on my Goblin. I could actually probably use more esc? It runs a Scorp ultimate. When the Yge's go they go safely.

I have also burned some Castle esc's last summer. When they go, they take out the entire heli with them in a nice 4th of July fireworks display. You get your moneys worth there!

Old cranky heli builder

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08-02-2013 10:38 AM  4 years agoPost 22
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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I'm running a KDE 700-495 in a Suzi Laos 800 and at 13 degrees pitch at 1950 my Kontronik Kosmik logs 460 amps at the motor on a simple climb out and then shuts down. I've had plenty of logs showing over 325 amps at the battery and the ESC always shuts down and that's not even 3D flying at all.
Forget about the blade length, pitch and governed HS, its all about the gearing. What is your main and pinion gear tooth count?

60% of the time, it works every time!

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08-03-2013 05:29 AM  4 years agoPost 23
Sam2b

rrElite Veteran

Seattle, WA

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Additionally, if you're using a motor capable of putting out a lot of watts (~4000+ watts) and if you're really flying hard on the collective, yeah it's hard on the ESC's limitation.

An example, as for myself, I'm still running a 700E, HV120 ESC on a NEU 1915 1.5Y 450KV motor, 9.58:1 gear ratio, and 1900RPM head speed. I feel it has LOTS of power to get up and go, and the motor, ESC, and batteries always come down cool; meaning I can wrap my hand around it and hold on tight and not burn myself, nor does it even feel warm! To me that's all evidence of a setup that's not hurting for more of anything. Oh, and I fly for 6 minutes and have fun the entire time, not just hovering around. The proof is there.

So yeah, gear it low (low ratio) and push it hard, and yep you'll see fireworks alright.

PS: Low head speed with a low ratio is also a recipe for strained electronics.

_Sam B_
Team MSH USA * Protos Max * Xpert servos * Cyclone Blades * ProgressiveRC * VoltMagic * Ecalc

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08-03-2013 03:58 PM  4 years agoPost 24
rotoryj

rrNovice

Vancouver, Wa

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I'm at 9. 28 gearing but I can't say I agree with your statement. Well, not completely. Incorrect gearing can probably put your motor outside its sweet spot and can definitely work the ESC too hard if you need to grossly move your throttle curve to accommodate poor gearing. But I am at 80% which is exactly what Kontronik recommends and I'm flying at 1950 head speed. My motor comes down hot but not insane (lost my temp gun somewhere...sorry), but my ESC and battery come down only slightly warm. In fact my logs show internal temps at about 100F on the Kosmik.

Blade size, I think, is a killer. Going to an 800mm blade from a 700 mm also increases blade chord by 10mm along the entire length. Thats a 25% increase in disc loading not to mention the added centrifugal force from longer and heavier blades. And there's also added weight in the frame but that's somewhat trivial compared to the afore mentioned loads.

I just think we're asking bigger birds to perform like smaller birds with power systems (mainly the ESC) that are only marginally better in terms of power handling. Where are the crops of 300+ amp ESC's? I'll tell ya. They aren't being mass produced because the majority of pilots are flying 700 or smaller ships and that's the sweet spot from a sales perspective. There just isn't a huge calling for 20kW motors and ESC's right now. Scorpion builds the super high power motors in limited runs and charges a boat load for them yet there are a hundred pilots online looking for those motors. I am one! Yet my Kosmik is shutting down at 12kW and I've seen Castle 160 ESC's logging 12kW as well but keep in mind these are peak numbers, not constant. YGE has the 320 that, by my estimates, is capable of sustained 15kW! And the math suggests peaks of over 22kW. Its overkill for what and how we are flying but it will definitely never thermal out and leave my bird plummeting to Earth. And, since heat is a killer for electronic components, your investmentshould last a while longer. I'm not suggesting everyone run out and buy a YGE, I'm not even 100% sold on them myself. I'm just suggesting that 300 amp ESC's are absolutely a requirement right now. I wish all the major ESC builders offered a unit that I could beat on all day without worrying whether my poor collective management skills were going to cause a fire.

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08-03-2013 08:34 PM  4 years agoPost 25
Sam2b

rrElite Veteran

Seattle, WA

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..

_Sam B_
Team MSH USA * Protos Max * Xpert servos * Cyclone Blades * ProgressiveRC * VoltMagic * Ecalc

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08-03-2013 09:07 PM  4 years agoPost 26
Luvmyhelis

rrApprentice

Spokane, Washington. USA

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Good post Rotoryj!

Old cranky heli builder

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08-05-2013 10:40 AM  4 years agoPost 27
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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But I am at 80% which is exactly what Kontronik recommends
80% in your TX or in the Kosmik?

Your 800 is setup to run at 2350 rpm max! Thats not much less than my 700 is geared for! If you want your Kosmik to stop shutting down simply drop a pinion tooth, don't worry you can still run the same HS and you won't be able to tell the difference to the governing.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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08-05-2013 04:03 PM  4 years agoPost 28
rotoryj

rrNovice

Vancouver, Wa

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Wow, that number is really out there. Actually when I run the numbers through a calculator the headspeed is quite a bit higher than actual but when I read my log I can see it's actually only hitting 1900. To verify it I'm taching the bird at a shade under 1950. And throttle is right at 80% in the log when in flight mode 2. So, it appears that the numbers all line up but it stil can't keep up.

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08-05-2013 04:13 PM  4 years agoPost 29
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Like I say you could drop a pinion size and run 85-90% throttle, im 99% sure it would stop your shutting down problem, plus you would get extra flight time.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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08-05-2013 04:53 PM  4 years agoPost 30
rotoryj

rrNovice

Vancouver, Wa

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I'm beginning to feel the same way. I had planned to run the YGE 320 but YGE wrote and said that even though that unit can support my amp needs it is not the best ESC for the KDE motor. Not much of an explanation beyond that except that it had to do with pole counts. Fair enough and they saved me $700 in trial and error.

I'm now planning to ramp up to 14S with the Kosmik and then drop several teeth or even look at a lower KV motor while putting my throttle curve (governor) at about 90%.

Thanks for all the advice from everyone. I'll let ya know if it works out any better.

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08-06-2013 01:41 AM  4 years agoPost 31
Sam2b

rrElite Veteran

Seattle, WA

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Sounds like a cool plan, rotoryj. I'm excited to hear a good report with the 14S and lower pinion.

_Sam B_
Team MSH USA * Protos Max * Xpert servos * Cyclone Blades * ProgressiveRC * VoltMagic * Ecalc

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08-06-2013 04:38 AM  4 years agoPost 32
Luvmyhelis

rrApprentice

Spokane, Washington. USA

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Yeah, rotoryj. I was also doing research on the Yge esc's last year when I helped develop a new prototype Scorp motor for use with 12s 450s. The esc can't phase fast enough for some motors with higher stator/pole counts at certain Kv ratings. There is a posted esc phasing sheet I have that lists every known esc out there and how fast they can phase before they hit the wall. As good as they are. The YGE is right in the middle of the pack. On my project motor it started sputtering at less than 50% throttle. When doing so the amp spikes are horrific.

Old cranky heli builder

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08-06-2013 05:04 AM  4 years agoPost 33
heliaddict2424

rrApprentice

SCV SoCal.

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Why use a motor like KDE? Scorpion has no issues with YGE or any other ESC and has the best support in the industry if you need it. I don't understand the need to use different products just for the sake of being different. But that's just me....

Team MikadoUSA Team Scorpion

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08-06-2013 05:37 AM  4 years agoPost 34
rotoryj

rrNovice

Vancouver, Wa

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heliaddict2424

I agree that Scorpion has some killer motors but when I built this bird I only found two motors that produced the kind of power I was looking for, the Scorpion HK 4540 and the KDE 700, both are super powerful but the Scorpion is practically a myth with such limited quantities. The KDE motor is extremely powerful as well and also very efficient, probably one of the best compromises on the market when it comes to both of those features. The fact that the YGE 320 doesn't play well with the KDE isn't a shocker as my Xera had a couple issues with YGE as well. I like YGE speed controllers, I just think it's super difficult to get every combination of ESC and motor on the planet to get along. There are just too many variables. But, If you haven't flown the KDE stuff you're missing out. These things are brutal. I'm logging 12kW before the ESC fails and that's not even near what the motor can handle.

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08-06-2013 08:01 PM  4 years agoPost 35
heliaddict2424

rrApprentice

SCV SoCal.

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rotoryj

If your interested I have a 4540 I am getting wound in Germany once I decide on the winding. I also have a 4540 in my Xx800 that's about 400kv. I do not need both if your interested PM me.

Team MikadoUSA Team Scorpion

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08-06-2013 09:01 PM  4 years agoPost 36
Luvmyhelis

rrApprentice

Spokane, Washington. USA

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Yeah, nothing out there will ever compete with a custom wound motor if it is based on good quality kits and using pure copper wire. I myself noted some serious improvements in all the ones I have had done for me by guys like Dan at GoBrushless. Large measurable amp drops and fairly substantial performance gains. All the while running cooler. After that I started winding my own also. But, to be honest. I searched all over before luckily finding my last NextD Scorp ultimate for my Goblin in one of the Rc FS sections. I looked everywhere and no one even had the basic Scorp stator/can kits to wind with. Not to mention as quoted above, there just weren't any Scorps in my spec range anywhere for sale either.

Plus alot of the other motors such as KDE have different layouts that require esc's that can phase faster than the YGE/Kontronics brands. They might be great esc's but their phasing speeds are down in the middle of the pack. I have the complete Esc chart that lists each brand and what they are capable of. This is where Castle reigns supreme. But having lost a couple of very expensive one off prototype helis due to the dreaded Castle Cremations 'flame on' routines early last year. I cringe when getting backed into a corner and having to use them now.

But I did notice, when using those motors with the higher stator/pole counts that needed the Castle's. They outperformed the Scorps by a fairly large margin. Anyone else other than me though still feel unsettled when flying with Castles esc's?

Old cranky heli builder

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08-07-2013 04:33 AM  4 years agoPost 37
Sam2b

rrElite Veteran

Seattle, WA

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Anyone else other than me though still feel unsettled when flying with Castles esc's?
Yes, +1. The audible sounds alone the way the gov operates the motor is not pleasant. I hear the motor lagging & over speeding when the pilots gets on & off the collective, and to me makes the motor look/sound more poorly than it is, in my humblest opinion. I feel bad to say that, but I just don't believe the Castle gov is "there" yet. I've also owned one.

Flying/seeing the Vbar gov is a WORLD of difference, but also relative to the ESC. My copy-king ESC does great - I just can't be more pleased with the fast & smooth reponse and operation no matter how fast & wild you get on the collective, including fast traveling maneuvers. The difference is felt, seen, and with audible sounds from the motor.

Also Kontronic ESC are fast and smooth similarly, but Vbar gov has got it hands-down, in my opinion.

_Sam B_
Team MSH USA * Protos Max * Xpert servos * Cyclone Blades * ProgressiveRC * VoltMagic * Ecalc

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08-07-2013 07:41 AM  4 years agoPost 38
Luvmyhelis

rrApprentice

Spokane, Washington. USA

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Both Vbar and Skookum (which I run) are proactive. Nothing beats a gov that is already ramping up and changing pitch values before the motor even sees the load hit.

Old cranky heli builder

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08-07-2013 05:31 PM  4 years agoPost 39
Sam2b

rrElite Veteran

Seattle, WA

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Bam, nail on the head, my luv.

_Sam B_
Team MSH USA * Protos Max * Xpert servos * Cyclone Blades * ProgressiveRC * VoltMagic * Ecalc

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