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HelicopterOff Topics › The instability of our universe...
05-28-2013 08:11 PM  4 years agoPost 21
outhouse

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However, never see any of the "non-theists" get pinked no matter what they say about beliefs, God, faith, or religion. Okay...
That is because we are playing nice as required.

Talking about mythology isn't a pinkable infraction.
Meanwhile- it is amazing how complex our world is; the deeper we dig the more marvelous and amazing it is. And this, for many, is consistent with belief in God the Creator.
And there is the problem. You personally are placing theism into science where it has no business.

Science leaves theism alone because its not their job.
And pursuit of science is wonderful too; but belief in science as the solution to man's ills is obviously mistaken. Because science can tell what, perhaps how, but not why.
Your very wrong here bud.

Science is looking for why. The more science knows the further a god concept is placed in gaps of our knowledge.

We know the earth wasn't created in 6 days, that is mythology. not science.

As written Genesis is proven mythology, and thus creation outlawed from science classrooms so that we don't poison our children's minds.

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05-28-2013 08:24 PM  4 years agoPost 22
helimatt

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How can science tell us why? Why are we here, why is it good to care about humanity? Why is it good to give your life in sacrifice for another that they might live? Or is it good to do that at all? Why is it good to raise children and sacrifice for them? Or is that good?

I'm a scientist and an engineer. I love science. There is absolutley NO problem pursuing science, from a Christian's point of view.

Yes, I'm a follower of Jesus of Nazareth, who I believe to be the Son of God. Nothing about science threatens that, and that does not threaten science. What could be more consistent than to study what I believe my Creator has created, and the ways that this world then works in the natural laws?

Science and faith in God are not incompatible. You are far, far off course if you believe they are. Facts are facts- truth is Truth. And its very good. However, one can draw incorrect, not "good" conclusions from current understanding from science and theory.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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05-28-2013 08:30 PM  4 years agoPost 23
helimatt

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Outhouse, don't even go there.

"Genesis is proven mythology". Proven in what way? I've studied these things to some extent- there are many opinions even theories but no "proof". You cannot use scientific experiments to prove a hypothesis wrt history and human events. One can only abductively conclude the most reasonable explanation. What about Jesus' life and death, and his empty tomb- historical fact and well documented. In any case, if you wish to discuss further, PM me. I'd welcome the discussion.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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05-28-2013 08:33 PM  4 years agoPost 24
Dennis (RIP)

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More to the point, as proven here, is the instability of man.

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05-28-2013 08:49 PM  4 years agoPost 25
Gearhead

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helimatt,, out house is a lost cause, don't you know>, his brother is a Marine Biologists, he knows everything, yet they don't know how to "feel" God

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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05-28-2013 09:12 PM  4 years agoPost 26
Climax

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For those following the physics/cosmology in this thread, here is another video that goes into a bit more detail... Well worth watching if you have a genuine interest.

It's given by Lawrence Krauss, a well known and respected American physicist.

Watch at YouTube

As you'll see (if you watch the video) he has quite a playful style but still does a good job of explaining these complex ideas without delving into the complexities of the associated maths.

Electronics, Physics, Helicopters, Fixing Things...

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05-28-2013 09:23 PM  4 years agoPost 27
jcrack_corn

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one way or another several billion people are wrong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups

------------------------------------------------------------------
do it inverted
------------

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05-28-2013 10:12 PM  4 years agoPost 28
Gearhead

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you don't need religion to feel God

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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05-29-2013 12:17 AM  4 years agoPost 29
outhouse

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How can science tell us why?
People used to believe a deity made it rain.

Science taught "why" with the hydrological cycle

people used to believe deity was angry when we had earthquakes

Science taught "why" with tectonic plates always on the move.

people 3000 years ago believed the earth was created in a week

science taught us "why" it took millions of years of meteors creating the earth

people 3000 year ago thought water on earth was created in a day

science taught us "why" it took over a billion years for the earth to cool and possibly meteors carried water here.

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05-29-2013 12:21 AM  4 years agoPost 30
outhouse

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Why are we here, why is it good to care about humanity? Why is it good to give your life in sacrifice for another that they might live? Or is it good to do that at all? Why is it good to raise children and sacrifice for them? Or is that good?
Human nature

We all start with parental love and kindness as children.
I'm a scientist and an engineer. I love science. There is absolutley NO problem pursuing science, from a Christian's point of view.
I agree.

As long as you don't step on science toes attributing things to a deity just because science doesn't have a answer.

That is a mistake man has made for hundreds of thousands of years.

You know, when man first created fire he surely though smoke was a deity as he didn't understand why it rose like magic. In the most primitive tribes that exist today, smoke is a spirit followed by almost all

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05-29-2013 12:32 AM  4 years agoPost 31
outhouse

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"Genesis is proven mythology". Proven in what way?
I love theology to the point I study scholarships and debate with many current authors. I fight the mythers that claim Jesus is mythology like Earl Doherty and Stephan Huller, even had emails with Richard Carrier.

To follow Genesis you need to understand the evolution of that particular book. It went about 500 years in the making and evolved for a very long period of time. It was a collection and compilation of many different private Jewish collections.

You had a compilation of Northern tribes that followed El as a deity and southern tribes that sometimes followed Yahweh. These two collections of collections were compiled and that is why you see two accounts of creation and two accounts of the mythical flood.

If you want to know about Historical Jesus let me know. I know all of the current scholarships on the subject in full and am authoring a book of my own on the very subject.

If you or anyone else would like a better understanding of the NT your welcome to view Yales NT online courses under professor Dale B Martin here. [free]

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL279CFA55C51E75E0

Im not trying to effect or talk down to your faith, but there comes a place where faith should not be involved with science in any way.

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05-29-2013 12:52 AM  4 years agoPost 32
Wave

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Jesus was a mushroom.

Watch at YouTube

Just a fertility cult.

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05-29-2013 02:03 AM  4 years agoPost 33
outhouse

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Wave he was a serious loser

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sa...m_and_the_Cross

The book has been described as "notorious" and as "one of the strangest books ever published on the subject of religion and pharmacology".[4] There was a media frenzy when it was published at the dawn of the 1970s. This caused the publisher to apologize for issuing it and forced Allegro's resignation from his university position.[1][5] Judith Anne Brown suggested that the book was "difficult to read and difficult to summarize, because he follows clues that criss-cross different cultures and lead into many-layered webs of association."[5] Mark Hall writes that Allegro suggested the scrolls all but proved that an historical Jesus never existed.[6] Philip Jenkins writes that Allegro was an eccentric scholar who relied on texts that did not exist in quite the form he was citing them, and calls the Sacred Mushroom and the Cross "possibly the single most ludicrous book on Jesus scholarship by a qualified academic."[

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05-29-2013 04:42 AM  4 years agoPost 34
Wave

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Guess you missed this part " Recent studies of Allegro's work have given new supporting linguistic evidence and led to calls for his theories to be re-evaluated by the mainstream"

His grasp of aramaic was considered to be among the best of the dead sea scholars.

The reality is that early christian works of art and paintings frequently portray the phalic symbol of the mushroom.

Now weather that relates to the fertility aspects of the shape it portrays or if it relates to the mind altering aspect of some mushrooms, is subject to argument.

Fertility cult or mushroom eaters ?

That John Allegro found written reference to the mushroom cult in the dead sea scrolls only serves to support what was already discovered in christian artwork.

It is no wonder he was attacked so vigorously considering that he was suggesting that Jesus NEVER EXISTED.

I understand that you are a man of faith Outhouse, so it is understandable why you object.

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05-29-2013 07:22 AM  4 years agoPost 35
outhouse

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Guess you missed this part " Recent studies of Allegro's work have given new supporting linguistic evidence and led to calls for his theories to be re-evaluated by the mainstream"
Yes they are begging for someone credible to support this nonsense, so far not one credible scholar follows any of this.

the beauty of Wiki is it has to site sources

The only people that are begging are not mainstream biblical scholars at all.

One is John Rush who lives 10 minutes away and is not a scholar at all, nor a historian. he is someone who has vested interest in mushrooms and their relationship to religions and mythicism

Michael Hoffman is the other person and he is a real nutter. He denies the holocaust, and is one of those conspiracy nutter's. he also had Price edit his work who is also a known Jesus mythicist.

Sorry this is more then a hobby to me, you will have to do much better.

By the way, anyone who knows me also knows I am as strong a atheist as they come.

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05-29-2013 07:30 AM  4 years agoPost 36
outhouse

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I will say that the use of different drugs was widespread in ancient cultures.

In Judaism they used to fast to bring on altered states, similar to the tales of Jesus fasting for 40 days in the desert. [by the way 40 days was a metaphor for "a long time" not a literal 40 days]

They also loved their wine.

Another mistake you made was this.
The reality is that early christian works of art and paintings frequently portray the phalic symbol of the mushroom.
Complete BS

How old is the oldest surviving Christian artwork? what 70 CE from Megiddo and has no mushroom?.

I will ask you to provide dates and such mushroom pictures or its BS. Because most work is after 300 CE which is not early.

If Christianity started as a fertility cult, then their sacred scripture would contain this information and it doesn't have any. Not from any author of the NT.

Its not what the NT or early movement was about.

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05-29-2013 07:52 AM  4 years agoPost 37
outhouse

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Wave

If you want some real nutter conspiracy crap about Christianity and the phallic symbol, try some really good garbage, instead of that weak sauce your throwing my way.

http://freethoughtnation.com/contri...he-vatican.html

I have debated her and her followers many times. Super weak sauce as far as untrained mythicist go.

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05-29-2013 08:52 AM  4 years agoPost 38
Wave

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Illinois

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By the way, anyone who knows me also knows I am as strong a atheist as they come.
Actually you are an ideolog.

A man of faith.

The bottom line is that it matters not if Jesus existed or did not exist. If God exists or does not exist.

People are entitled to their beliefs and it is foolish to attempt to argue with faith and belief.

Truely a fools errand if you will.

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05-29-2013 12:15 PM  4 years agoPost 39
shawmcky

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Amen to that Wave,although Jesus is alive,ex I.T and living in Australia.On the news today,Google it

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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05-29-2013 12:39 PM  4 years agoPost 40
Dennis (RIP)

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Actually you are an ideolog.
Actually, his faith in evolution is rooted in the hatred of all those of religion and everything to do with religion and faith.

He is just another atheist member of a cult of hatred that claims to be knowledgeable of detailed, complex scientific theory that has never been settled nor very likely never to be settled.

Also, he has no formal education at all. In fact, by his own admission, he is just another high school drop out.

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