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HelicopterMain Discussion › Radio gremlins STILL...
01-26-2013 02:23 AM  4 years agoPost 21
Flyin for Jesus

rrVeteran

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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A little more research... I found this.

8700G Ultra Speed Gyro MG Servo 4.8v/PCM Only
Overview
The ultimate tail rotor servo. The 8700G offers a speed of .09 second transit at 4.8 volts. Wider spaced bearings offer superior wear characteristics and precision. The 8700's unsurpassed precision and speed are essential for accurate tail control when used with heading-lock style gyros. With the 8700G, heli enthusiasts will find their tail more precise and longer lasting than ever.
Key Features

Coreless motor
Dual ball bearing
Works with PCM and DSM2 radios

Doesn't mention DSMX in the overview and in the specs...

8700G Ultra Speed Gyro MG Servo 4.8v/PCM Only
Specs
Size Category: Specialty
Type: Analog
Application: PCM Only Heli tail servo
Torque: 49.3 oz/in @ 4.8V
Speed: .09 sec/60° @ 4.8V
Length: 1.52 in
Width: 0.73 in
Height: 1.32 in
Weight: 2.0 oz
Bushing Or Bearing: Bearing
Bearing: Dual
Motor Type: Coreless
Gear Type: Metal

I use it for the tail and no longer with PCM modulation.

I'm trying to recreate the problems now... so far, re binding has not helped... I still get the occasional Rx light flicker.

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01-26-2013 04:07 AM  4 years agoPost 22
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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FFJ -- ignore the "works with PCM and DSM2" thing in the specs. The servo is probably a bit of a power hog, and most likely does not play well with the receiver power supply, in that as a digital servo with that warning, it may feed quite a bit of electrical noise back on the power line.

It "doesn't mention DSMx" because DSMx wasn't in existence at the time the information was printed.

It's not that the servo KNOWS what kind of receiver it's plugged into, but the warning is there to tell you NOT to use it with an older FM/PPM 72 MHz receiver -- these didn't handle noise or interference well. PCM receivers seemed to. When provided with an adequate power source, the servo should be just peachy keen.

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I guess I don't know what the rest of the radio gear you have installed might be, but there is an outside chance that the Align regulator isn't up to the task of supplying the needed current. I doubt it, but you never know.

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The AR8000. Does it have a satellite connected, and is the satellite a DSMx satellite, or a DSM2 satellite? This is important. As the AR8000 is a DSMx receiver, the satellite must ALSO be a DSMx satellite. No DSM2 satellite allowed here in your setup.

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Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-26-2013 06:21 AM  4 years agoPost 23
pjones

rrNovice

Vancouver, Canada

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aerocal posted this to an issue that I was having with my AR8000 when I thought my issue was that my BEC was not powerful enough for my setup.
The red led on the TM is the rpm sensor indicator.It will generally be on when you powerup and then go off if there is no rpm function attached.
The red led on the AR8000 is the indicator for Holds.It has nothing to do with power supplied.It indicates the Rx has lost communication with the Tx and went into a Hold condition and then reconnected.A powercycle of the Rx clears the Hold indication which blinks once for every Hold it records since its last powercycle.
The orange led on the TM is basically the same as a Rx.Fastblink for bindmode and solid when connected.
In DSM2 mode the orange led may blink slowly on the 8000 only.This indicates that it has rebooted since the Tx was last powercycled.
Hope that info helps you to find a solution or guide you in the right path.

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01-26-2013 11:41 AM  4 years agoPost 24
Noobyflyer

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Clearwater, FL

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I like Futaba.

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01-26-2013 06:30 PM  4 years agoPost 25
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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I like The Wizard of Oz.

Liking Futaba really has nothing to do with helping here. But it does boost your post count.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-27-2013 01:47 AM  4 years agoPost 26
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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FFJ -- another wild and crazy idea.

You have a different transmitter.
You have a different receiver.
You have a new battery and regulator.

You also have several bits of old equipment plugged into your new, shiny system.

Unplug all servos. See if the system settles down and begins to behave correctly.

Plug one old servo in at a time, each time making note of what does or doesn't happen.

After replacing the TX, RX, and power source, it's time to start looking elsewhere. The old stuff that you still have in the mix may be the source of your trouble.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result. In this case, you have replaced the heart of the system, still have problems, and are still suspecting the heart. Start looking at the rest of the body.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-27-2013 06:20 AM  4 years agoPost 27
Flyin for Jesus

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Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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News of today... I flew my Century heli... just a hover but its the first time its been up in he under its own power for 10 years. I set it rich and went through 2 tanks without a hitch. I brought my Fury with me and did some testing... last night I couldn't get it to do anything wrong. I turned it on and went through the binding process from a distance and set it on the kitchen table as I have always done. 15 minutes with the occasional light flicker of the Rx light but not enough to cause the Rx to go to failsafe positing or anything.
So, I re bind it from like 6" away as I have normally done, then nothing at all... not even a flicker for 45 minutes. During this time I leveled the heli, leveled the swashplate and set the pitch curves. I ran the Rx batt towards the low and shut it off.

Now, just because I had one good day doesn't mean its good to fly. so, today I turn it on and leave it again without any flicker to the lights or anything.

Total setup is the Align B6T regulator, CSM400 gyro with JR 8700G tail, 3 JR 8417 on the swash and some regular servo on the throttle. But, like I said before, I had this same problem on my other heli with the only common components being the gyro and 8700G tail.

Buddy mentioned that my wireless internet router sitting about 5' from me runs on 2.4Ghz and maybe that was the interruption... so I turned on my laptop and set it next to the heli as I have done before, no problems.

I looked at some techniques on Rx and SAT placement and adjusted some things a bit. I put fuel tubing over the exposed antenna to keep them from getting bent and not working so well... as well as placement.

Since I can't get it to act up... I'm going to purchase that flight log thing mentioned on page 1 and see what I'm getting on my setup. I'm not in a hurry to fly this... If everything is functioning like it should, I plan on using the Rx in my cheapie airplane and if all is good there, I guess I'll give it a try in the heli...

I'll keep everyone posted.

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01-27-2013 02:09 PM  4 years agoPost 28
SSN Pru

rrElite Veteran

Taxachusetts

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Turning it on and letting it sit likely won't bring out the gremlin if it's a power related gremlin. Likewise, flight demands on the servos will mean higher currents and tiger loads on your power system so it really should be tested that way.

Are you setting the fail safe at zero throttle when you bind?

I'm in agreement with dkshema in that you're issuer is with one of your servos, especially if they're old and haven't been used in a long time. I've seen old unused servos do some really strange things after being powered up. They all eventually sorted themselves out. I changed it up to light corrosion on the servo pots or something similar.

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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01-27-2013 02:34 PM  4 years agoPost 29
Noobyflyer

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Clearwater, FL

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dkshema
In this case, you have replaced the heart of the system, still have problems, and are still suspecting the heart. Start looking at the rest of the body
Thanks Dr. Now report to the OR with your heli tool kit. We have another Spektrum on life support that needs your RC Hobby Expertise.

Were you a gym class hero too? Don't be modest. Do tell

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01-27-2013 05:02 PM  4 years agoPost 30
Flyin for Jesus

rrVeteran

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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My plan during testing the other day was to turn it on... wait for it to start having trouble then start unhooking things, one at a time, to see which one solved he problem.

Since I couldn't get it to act up, I didn't try unhooking anything. I'm not able to determine that its working right, then unhook something and now it works more right.

I believe in Jesus and everything He said was true... but I don't believe in something "fixing" itself.

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01-27-2013 06:53 PM  4 years agoPost 31
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Noob...no, I was not the gym class hero, and was not even involved in high school sports. The closest I got to high school sports was playing in the marching band for football season and pep band during basketball season.

I spent my spare time building and flying control line, free flight, and radio control airplanes, being a geek with early computer systems, and spent quite a few years fixing radio control systems for the local flyers where I lived in Montana. Yes, I built my own RC systems from kits, and kept them alive for years.

I built a lot of Heathkit stuff, too. Much of my early professional career consisted of designing, building, programming, selling, and servicing computer systems for a small, two man engineering group in the late 70's and early 80's. In my professional career since 1984, I've been involved with avionics design for everything from small private aircraft, military avionics, commercial and business aviation. Much of my life for the past 37 years or so has dealt with finding the root cause of failures and figuring out how to correct them.

I guess I'm not sure where you're going with that comment anyway, however.

I AM aware of another fellow here with what appears to be a DOA 3GX system. I'm doing what I can from a distance to get him in the air, as well. (UPDATE -- that system is now up and running).

When I can help get people in the air safely and solve problems with their equipment, I do so. I offer useful advice and try to probe to find out what really is happening. I think my RR record speaks for itself in that regard.

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Back to the real problem:

FFJ -- I, too, am worried when things just suddenly "go right" without explanation. Defining the root cause of a problem is usually the best way to go, even it it takes extra effort

What's still worrisome is that you say you still see an occasional flicker on the receiver LED. Operating inside your shop, you should have mondo sized RF, and there should not be intermittent happenings.

One thing I HAVE noticed over the years of operating Spektrum stuff is that if you have your transmitter in some of the setup windows (governor mode settings, gyro settings, etc.) you WILL see random flickering of the RX LEDs. There was even a thread I'd started several years back, and John Adams from Spektrum joined in, to the point where he sent me a flight log to record what I'd seen. Pual Beard was also involved. Sent John the data, had a few more responses, then the topic just dried up. There never was a definitive answer as to what was happening. I don't know if a similar situation exists with Spektrum transmitters, as I was using a JR X9303. Other people reported the same issue with their X9303, so it is some kind of system problem, not a specific owner/radio issue. MORAL of this paragraph is to make sure you are not in some setup menu of your radio when you're seeing the LEDs flicker. It may be a red herring.

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You don't HAVE to be 15 feet away from your RX to bind. Not even several feet away. If it binds, it binds. Binding is a set it and forget it operation. If you bind, you bind. If you don't you don't. There isn't such a thing as "partial binding". The belief that you need to be a long way from your RX when binding stems from this note:

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DO make sure your throttle is set to low when binding, this will become the fail safe setting for throttle. All other settings will stay at last known position (unless your receiver supports set-position fail safe, and then you go through a slightly different binding process).

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Since you do see occasional LED flickering, I'd still go through the motions of unplugging one servo at a time, to see if you can isolate the problem further.

Make sure when you unplug stuff one at a time, that you actually do that. For instance, at any given time, have all other stuff plugged in so that you are eliminating one item each time.

If you haven't already, inspect all wiring, looking for chafed insulation, cut insulation, nicks, breaks. If you are using some kind of switch harness, make sure the switch is good, and that it is a heavy duty harness with larger gauge wires. Many radio related problems are directly attributable to inadequate power supply sources, wiring, or switches that can't handle the current needs of today's systems.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Radio gremlins STILL...
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