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HelicopterMain Discussion › Radio gremlins STILL...
01-25-2013 06:50 AM  4 years agoPost 1
Flyin for Jesus

rrVeteran

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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Whole story...
Old Century Falcon 3, JR 8103 converted to DSM, Spektrum AR8000 DSMX receiver, CSM 400 gyro with JR 8700G tail servo ( yep.. all old school ) NIMH battery pack.

Setup heli in kitchen, noticed blinking red light at 2 blinks but didn't notice the radio cutout since I was just setting it up ( also, this was before I knew what the blinking red light meant )
Go to flight field, start the heli and after a few seconds, it spools up on its own, it goes back to idle without leaving the ground... then does it again before I get to kill the motor, after the 2nd time, I got the motor stopped. I notice the red light blinking 2 times again... now I know what it means... radio hit.
Local hobby guy says the battery pack may not be enough to handle all the servos, so I buy an Align B6T voltage regulator and LiPo.
Further testing shows that this is not fixed.
Get on RR and some advise me to get a manufactured DSM radio instead of converting the 8103. so I now have a JR 9503 DSMX radio.
I tested it on the table and seemed to fix the problem, but I never flew the heli. Now, I put the AR8000 in my (also old ) X-cell fury 60 because I was installing a governor in it and it could use the 8 channel RX so I put my AR7000 DSM2 into the Century heli.
I go through the setup with the Fury doing the GOV and just like always, I get a flickering of the RX light and the SAT light also ( just like it did in the Century heli ) and eventually radio non responsive then the infamous red light flash.
CRAP... I wanted to go fly it this weekend. My friend has an AR8000 that he got with his DX7 purchase so I grabbed it from him. Installed it along with its SAT and after a little while, it did the same thing.

I have used different power, different TX, different heli and different RX and still have this problem. ( only 2 things consistent are the CSM gyro and 8700G servo in both helis ) so I go turn on the Century with the AR7000 DSM2 and leave it and the radio on for over an hour... no problems.
One more thing... my friend did use his AR8000 in his plane and had no problems...

So, is this gyro or servo messing with the RX? Why does it only affect DSMX?

I am at a loss as to what to do, I guess I can go back to the 8103 and my SPCM RX, I never had a problem with that. or find another AR7000 RX?

Any ideas? please...

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01-25-2013 09:21 AM  4 years agoPost 2
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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That's one thing about this hobby that can be so frustrating it can turn you off from flying for quite a while. And, like in your case, it seems like the very last thing you change is the answer. Change that last thing and let us know.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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01-25-2013 01:01 PM  4 years agoPost 3
RCHSF

rrKey Veteran

NC

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How close are you to the model when you bind? Try standing at least 4 feet away with your tx pointed away from the heli when binding.

I try to stand at least 4-5 feet away and turn my back towards the model, with radio infront of me so I'm between radio and model.

I would suspect he's standing right on top of it binding it. That will cause blinking lights, and crazy actions of the whole system. Does with my DX8, I offten find myself to close, and haveing to redo the bind from a distance.

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01-25-2013 01:43 PM  4 years agoPost 4
SSN Pru

rrElite Veteran

Taxachusetts

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Sounds to me like some other component connected in the system is acting up. I'd start eliminating them one by one to determine which is at fault!

Have you tried using the suspected Rx/Tx in another known good system?
And, like in your case, it seems like the very last thing you change is the answer.
Isn't that always the case? Sorta like losing something. It's always in the last place you look.

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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01-25-2013 01:46 PM  4 years agoPost 5
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Send It In...

I would suggest that you send it off to Horizon Hobby... they are the best out there in my book..
You have one of those problems that can cause you a lot of grief, but with a short trip to the Good Guys at Horizon and I am sure you will be back up and flying in no time....
Write them a completed letter (copy your post) and let them know exactly what and when these things seem to happen... they will do their best to recreate the events, and then they will let you know what can be done...
I am thinking that it is more a TX problem then the rx's you have changed out... but do send them the one that you seemed to have the most problem with..
Good Luck, Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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01-25-2013 01:48 PM  4 years agoPost 6
SSN Pru

rrElite Veteran

Taxachusetts

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I would suggest that you send it off to Horizon Hobby... they are the best out there in my book..
You have one of those problems that can cause you a lot of grief, but with a short trip to the Good Guys at Horizon and I am sure you will be back up and flying in no time...
He has already bought a new Tx and used multiple different Rx's. That points to problems with other hardware in the system causing loss of power to the Rx.

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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01-25-2013 02:30 PM  4 years agoPost 7
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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I would suspect the switch. plug the battery pack directly into the RX, no switch at all and test.

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01-25-2013 02:35 PM  4 years agoPost 8
Flyin for Jesus

rrVeteran

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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I fly a Blade MqX and a Blade 400 with this Tx and have never had a problem... Tried 2 Rx and one is a known good one.

After thinking about it last night, I will test things out with the gyro and tail servo disconnected and see what I get. If it clears up the problem, then its either AR8000 Rx specific to the gyro/servo or DSMX specific.

I'll try binding from a distance and see if that changes anything but I do it no different than my other helis... its worth a try though.

My local flight fields require DSM to fly the nitro heli, so I guess I can't go back.

Thanks everyone, I'll fool with it more tonight and post up my results.

EDOT: I've done 3 power configurations... battery pack with switch, battery pack w/o switch... and align B6T voltage regulator. The battery indicators on the voltage regulator are showing full and sometimes drop one LED when I just saw on the sticks but this problem happens anytime... not specifically when there is a high current draw.

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01-25-2013 02:43 PM  4 years agoPost 9
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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now that I'm thinking about it there was some speicific issue with the JR8700 servo where they would only support using it in a PCM radio configuration (no FM). this was before 2.4 SS radios but it's possible that the tail servo is causing an issue (total guess). If you have another tail servo you could put that in and see if that changes the behavior. for testing you don't need a tail specific servo. Ideally you'd use a coreless digital servo of some type but even a good quality analog standard servo will work if you set the gyro to analog mode.

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01-25-2013 03:19 PM  4 years agoPost 10
ShuRugal

rrKey Veteran

Killeen, TX

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did you buy that 9503 new or used? when spektrum first rolled DSMX, a few batches had problems with DMS2 back-compatibility and were recalled for firmware update. If your radio is used, it is possible the owner never had this done.
Important Product Bulletin
May 25, 2011
Spektrum and JR DSMX Transmitter Bulletin

DSMX transmitters operating in DSM2 mode

The Spektrum Team has been investigating sporadic reports from DSMX transmitter owners using their products in DSM2 mode. We have discovered that in some rare instances, DSMX equipped transmitters with the Product ID (PID) within this bulletin, may have a backwards compatibility issue that could cause a "hold" with the following superseded DSM2 receivers: AR500, AR6100, AR6100E, AR6110, AR6110E, AR6200 and AR6300.

Note: This bulletin does not apply to DSM2 ONLY transmitters.

If you have a DSMX transmitter with one of the following PIDs, please complete the Transmitter Service Request Form to receive a prepaid shipping label to send your transmitter to Horizon Hobby for a free firmware update.
•Click HERE to complete the Transmitter Service Request Form.
•Horizon will pay for ground shipping within the United States and Canada.
•If you purchased your product outside the US and Canada, contact your local retailer or distributor. A list of International distributors may be found HERE.
•If you have further questions in the United States, please call Horizon Hobby Product Support at 877-504-0233.

The PID is located in the battery compartment of your transmitter.

DX6i/DX5e/DX4e:
PID: HS010, HS011, HH011, HT011, HT012, HE012, HE101, HA101, HA102, HA103, HA104, HA105

Transmitters with affected PIDs may be found in the following products:

Blade mCP X RTF (BLH3500), E-flite Apprentice 15e RTF (EFL2725), Hangar 9 Alpha 40 DSM2 RTF (HAN4400), Hobbyzone Super Cub DSM RTF (HBZ7400), ParkZone Radian RTF (PKZ4700), ParkZone P-51D BL DSM RTF (PKZ2200), ParkZone F4U Corsair RTF (PKZ4600), Phoenix R/C Pro Simulator 3.0 with DX5e (RTM30R5510/RTM30R55101).

DX8:
PID: HS008, HS009, HH009, HH010, HT010, HE010, HE011, HA011, HA012, HA101, HO102, HO103, HO104, HO105

DX7:
PID: HA103, HA104, HA105

JRP9503:
PID: TM101, TM102, TM103, TM104, TM105

JRP9303:
PID: TM101, TM102, TM103, TM104, TM105

We apologize for this inconvenience. Horizon disclaims all liability and warranties for any consumer failing to act upon this product bulletin. Always check your transmitter and equipment prior to each flight.

© 2011 Horizon Hobby.
The Spektrum trademark is used with permission of Bachmann Industries, Inc.
DSM2 and DSMX are trademarks of Horizon Hobby, Inc. JR is a trademark of Horizon Hobby, Inc., registered in the U.S.
If you no longer wish to receive this newsletter, you may unsubscribe
Please send any questions, comments, or concerns to webmaster@spektrumrc.com
Mailing Address: Horizon Hobby, Inc., 4105 Fieldstone Rd., Champaign, IL 61822

AMA 700159

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01-25-2013 03:44 PM  4 years agoPost 11
SSN Pru

rrElite Veteran

Taxachusetts

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may have a backwards compatibility issue that could cause a "hold" with the following superseded DSM2 receivers: AR500, AR6100, AR6100E, AR6110, AR6110E, AR6200 and AR6300.
He's using an AR8000 receiver which isn't subject to the notification.

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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01-25-2013 04:27 PM  4 years agoPost 12
Flyin for Jesus

rrVeteran

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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I did check that recall and mine didn't fall into that problem.
So far, the backwards compatibility is what works.

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01-25-2013 04:53 PM  4 years agoPost 13
Flyin for Jesus

rrVeteran

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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Oh, to add one more thing... this wouldn't be a DSMX prublem specifically... I had this trouble with my converted 8103 which was DSM2.

Posting further testing results tonight...

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01-25-2013 05:14 PM  4 years agoPost 14
BladeScrape

rrApprentice

Warren OH. US

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It does kinda sound like something plugged into Rx is giving the trouble. Normally when you get the flashing light it's a power issue. Maybe a component is shorting out intermittently .

Team JR

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01-25-2013 05:18 PM  4 years agoPost 15
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Gyro/Servo

So in all of this have you just unpluged the gyro and tail servo to see if that takes the problem away?? If it doses seem better then just plug the gyro back in and leave the tail servo out...sounds as if you have done pretty much all of this...but thought I would ask...
Looking forward to hearing what you find....
Sometimes these "ghosting" problems can be just HARD TO FIND...

Good Luck, Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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01-25-2013 05:21 PM  4 years agoPost 16
Flyin for Jesus

rrVeteran

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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^^^ it acts the same in both helis and neither has had problems before ( years ago )
I did hover the fury about 3 years ago with my 8103 and AR7000 with no problems.
I'll put a volt meter on the Rx to see if I see it fluctuating. Instead of relying on the LED indicators..

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01-25-2013 05:39 PM  4 years agoPost 17
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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> I'll put a volt meter on the Rx to see if I see it fluctuating.

It is unlikely a volt meter will detect the short power blips that can be enough to bother the receiver.

Start simple. Unplug everything but the power source. Test. Plug one thing in. Test. Plug another in. Test. Repeat...

- John

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01-25-2013 05:42 PM  4 years agoPost 18
Flyin for Jesus

rrVeteran

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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Thanks Stan... I'll be trying that tonight...
First, I'll rebind and see what goes on. Likely not the problem since using 2 different Tx but simple and easy first.
I'll hook up a volt meter to see if there are any drops on voltage...
If still trouble, I'll unplug the gyro and tail servo and see what comes of that.
If still problems, I'll bind my buddies DX7 DSMX Tx and see what happens.

I'm leaning towards Rx model specific interference with the gyro or tail servo or even DSMX interference with the gyro.

My buddies AR8000 Rx worked fine in his plane but same trouble in the heli.

One question... the AR7000 DSM2 Rx logs Rx brownouts and the AR8000 DSMX logs signal loss but not Rx brownouts...
Does the AR7000 DSM2 Rx log signal loss? I ask because when I tried out the AR7000 for the same issues, I put it out in the garage and if the Rx won't log the signal loss, it may have the same problem but I wasn't there to witness it.
I guess I can power up the 7000 then turn the Tx off then back on to know.

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01-25-2013 05:53 PM  4 years agoPost 19
Flyin for Jesus

rrVeteran

Dana Point, Ca. 92629

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Thanks John... I don't think its a power problem but if I unplug everything and still trouble... I have an oscilloscope and it will show any flicker... I don't think it will come to that but good idea on the volt meter not showing quick flickers in voltage.

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01-25-2013 06:32 PM  4 years agoPost 20
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Check This Out

A lot of people have never heard of or used these... I have a couple of them around my shop and will not fly a new heli, pod and boom or scaler, until one of these is onboard and I do all the checking until I am confident with my set up... this would tell you if you are browning out or getting glitches..
Check it out: http://www.horizonhobby.com/product...ght-log-SPM9540

Hoping you find the problem soon... good luck, Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Radio gremlins STILL...
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