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HelicopterMain Discussion › Tail Pitch & Gyro
08-31-2012 05:01 PM  5 years agoPost 1
RCHSF

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NC

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I have an older heli, which I have listed in the out of production thread.

My question is. Do all heli's need the tail blades centered.
Or do they ever need to have any positive pitch mechanically set in the push rod so the gyro doesn't work so hard?
I have an old rate gyro on a Baron 30.

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08-31-2012 05:32 PM  5 years agoPost 2
bart2546

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Canal Winchester, OH - USA

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I believe it depends on the heli. Many people set some pitch into a tail mechanically to compensate for rotor torque. I know for the Synergy N5c when your tail servo and all rods are at 90, you should have 5 degrees pitch in your tail blades.

Regards, Brandon Bartolomucci; Team Synergy; Team Scorpion; & Team Bavarian Demon; AMA# L939231

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08-31-2012 05:44 PM  5 years agoPost 3
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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It is not based on the heli.
It is based on the requirement of the gyro (or FBL controller) and the servo.

If you are using a servo that is recommended for the gyro, and the linkages on the heli are solid & smooth, then follow the gyro setup guide. That may recommend you set "positive" pitch on the blades, or center the pitch slider on the tail rotor shaft.

BTW:
If you do some research on "The Tennis Racket Effect" (also called "Chinese Weights" ) you can see methods to minimize the torque required for the servo to move the tail rotor blades while they are spinning. It should make the servo last longer, use less power and provide faster response.
It isn't worth the effort - but it is very interesting reading. I did some testing on my Raptor 90.

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!

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08-31-2012 06:00 PM  5 years agoPost 4
RCHSF

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NC

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The gyro the a FMA Direct G100 Pizo Gyro, & servo is a JR 507. Can't find any instructions on the gyro.

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08-31-2012 06:33 PM  5 years agoPost 5
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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It depends on the helicopter. Some have pitch built in when the slider is centered, some have 0 pitch.

With an old rate gyro you're going to have to tinker with the linkage till it holds in a hover, then setup REVO mix

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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08-31-2012 06:51 PM  5 years agoPost 6
RCHSF

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NC

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Thanks. I'll just have to tinker with it trial and error.

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08-31-2012 06:56 PM  5 years agoPost 7
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Your Baron and gyro were designed well before the advent of 3D flying and heading hold gyros.

The rate mode gyro will sense movement and try to stop it. That's about it. It won't go the extra mile to maintain heading.

When the Baron and others were king of the hill, it wasn't uncommon to set the tail pitch at zero degrees and low stick, and then to set some amount of pitch -- 6 to 8 degrees -- with the stick in the middle, or about the hover point. All that setup was performed knowing that your radio DIDN'T have throttle curves, DIDN'T have pitch curves, and gyros of the day had gains set by pots on the gyro body.

The shortcomings of the Rate gyro were addressed by features that eventually showed up in heli radios -- Revolution mixing to help with sudden up/down throttle changes, and Acceleration mixing to deal with fast forward flight and how the tail would track somewhere other than in line with the direction of flight.

Pre-setting the tail rotor pitch for what you be your nominal flight conditions puts less work on you AND the gyro when operating in Rate mode.

In today's helis, if you were to run rate mode only, you'd not have second thoughts about setting the tail rotor such that at a reasonable hovering throttle, the heli wouldn't yaw left or right. With heading hold gyros, this is still a recommended practice by some (including the folk who MAKE the gyros); others just say center it and be done. It's a topic that could lead to another endless thread of pros and cons.

Today's helis and equipment are much much different than what your Baron was designed to operate with.

To say ALL helis need the pitch slider centered at neutral would be a gross mis-statement.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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09-01-2012 08:09 PM  5 years agoPost 8
RCHSF

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NC

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Guess this gyro is to outdated for me, no matter how I set the gain the tail blows out before lift off. (Trash)

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09-01-2012 08:58 PM  5 years agoPost 9
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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The gyro may be toast, or it may be set up to correct in the wrong direction.

If the heli starts spinning as soon as you get light and you can't control it, that's an indication you have the gyro set up incorrectly.

Most modern gyros have a "direction" feature to allow you to easily change the direction the gyro will move the rudder servo when it senses movement.

Assume that right rudder on your transmitter makes the tail rotor pushrod pull the pushrod forward, to the front of the heli, to make the nose turn right. You'd set your transmitter up so that right rudder command makes the tail rotor servo pull the pushrod forward.

THEN -- you'd pick up the heli and turn its nose LEFT while watching the Tail Rotor servo. When you turn the nose to the left, the servo once again needs to pull the tail rotor pushrod forward. If it doesn't, you'd flip the "normal/reverse" switch on the gyro so that it corrects movement properly.

.....

Some older (and some cheap) gyros just don't have a "normal/reverse" switch. To reverse these gyros, simply mount them upside down from their current position.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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09-01-2012 10:22 PM  5 years agoPost 10
RCHSF

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NC

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With the helicopter pointing away from me, and looking at the right side of the helicopter, where the rudder servo and tail blades are on.

If I give right rudder on the stick to point the noise right, it applies pitch to the tail rotor to push the tail clockwise, that would make the nose point right. That's right? Ok noting the way the servo arm moves when I give right rudder, the arm moves forward. Ok Then if I turn the helicopter rapidly counterclockwise the gyro makes the servo arm move forward to apply pitch to the tail servo to push the tail clockwise that would make the nose point right also to counter the torque. Seems Right to me.

Also the gain pot on the gyro works great, if I turn it all the way down, the servo doesn't do anything and turn it up makes the gyro work the servo quicker. But for the life of me I can't get the remote gain to work on My DX8.

I plugged into gear ch, also tried Aux3 on AR 8000. With Gain pot turned all the way down nothing/ or all the way up.

I guess this is a heading hold gyro? But it's a FMA Direct G100 Pizo Gyro. I guess I just been away to long from heli's. I might make a video latter and post it to show what it's doing.

Thanks Y'all

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Tail Pitch & Gyro
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