RunRyder RC
 11  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1813 views POST REPLY
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
08-29-2012 01:40 AM  5 years agoPost 1
PC12DRVR

rrKey Veteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

After two old HV120's catching fire, and now a 160hv and a HV160 lite Im at a loss.

First two on a stock 700MX and now the HV160 went up running a Quantam 4530-500. Leads are as short as possible everywhere, and using 6mm bullet connectors from progressive rc. Pulse 35C lipos.

Speedo on the last fire was 130 degrees as was the motor. 12khz timing as recomended by castle. They run fine for a couple of hard flights and then poof.

Anyone have any ideas? Or should I just buy another brand? Castle cant seem to explain what Im doing wrong so maybe someone here can?

Thanks

PC12

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-29-2012 01:53 AM  5 years agoPost 2
wrongler

rrProfessor

Brewerton, New York

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If Castle can't figure it out, Maybe time for a different brand.

Bill Whittaker

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-29-2012 03:39 AM  5 years agoPost 3
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

It doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong, but I suppose you could try one of those capacitor banks if you wanted to.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-29-2012 04:09 AM  5 years agoPost 4
rocket_33

rrElite Veteran

Mount Pleasant, Michigan USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Do you have some downloaded data from the Castle? Maybe can see something there

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-29-2012 05:09 AM  5 years agoPost 5
rcflyerheli

rrKey Veteran

Granbury, TX USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Were these the new ICE2 ESCs or the original ICEs. There have been many threads on the issues of the older ICE ESCs, particularly the 120s. When CC started the new ICE2 version, the 160 was identified with a problem. There was a foam strip that needed to be attached to the back of the board and there was a service bulletin issued from Castle on this issue.

I am running six of their ESCs, 1 80, 4 120s, and a 160. Knock on wood, I haven't seen any issues with them flaming, but my X7 was getting high recorded temps with the Quantum 4530, so I switched to an Align 700MX, and the temp issue went away.

I just got a new 160, that I want to try with the Quantum, and will set it up sometime next week.

FWIW, Castle has been good about swapping or repairing defective units.

I don't have any experience with the Lite series.

Hope this helps.

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
Amain Team Rep

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-29-2012 01:04 PM  5 years agoPost 6
dan-uk

rrApprentice

Bath, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If Castle can't figure it out, Maybe time for a different brand.
You need to get yourself over to Finless Bob's Tech Room over on the freaky forum under the thread ESC vs ESC. You won't be dissappointed.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-29-2012 01:14 PM  5 years agoPost 7
PC12DRVR

rrKey Veteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The first two Ice 120s were the original version, othe one that came with my 700E lasted about 50 flights. When Castle replaced the second burnt 120 with a Ice 2 160. When that went up they sent another. So they were kind enough to replcace all 4 but now they told me they cant replace anymore speedos for me stating that " they dont have a failure rate that high" as if I am the problem. The frustrating part is they cant tell me what im doing wrong either. I know 4 speedos is alot but if youre sending out defective product its not really IMO.

I dont have any downloaded data because they haven't been lasting more than two or three flights and they are now charred.

I run a ICE lite 100 in an airplane and have zero issues. I will check out the FB tech room.

Thanks for the replies.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-29-2012 01:29 PM  5 years agoPost 8
MMA0419

rrNovice

Allentown, PA USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

From what I understand they have a serious design flaw... some of them it happens right away some of them after many many flights. I think as soon as the anodizing rubs/wears a little thats it!!

Check out this thread... about half way down the first page...

https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t702852p1/

I'm sure some of you have already seen this but I figured I'd post it in case you have not

Goodluck!!

Sean

BOOM! Left hook... that just changed the fight..

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-30-2012 06:07 PM  5 years agoPost 9
gwright

rrVeteran

Champaign Il

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

how are you geared and what rpm are you running? I've seen cases where folks had things geared to turn very high revs then goverened down a lot (lots of headroom), and the current spikes are simply too much. Just a thought.

Gary Wright

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-30-2012 06:20 PM  5 years agoPost 10
rcflyerheli

rrKey Veteran

Granbury, TX USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

+1

Problem with your setup is that unless you are running a KDE adjustable mount, you are stuck with the fixed gear ratio with the helical drive. If you are running a straight machine cut gear, maybe there is something in your build that is causing the motor to draw more power than the escs can provide. What is your current limiting set to on your ESC? If it is turned completely off, I'd go back and choose a value that is right at the ESC value. Also, check to see if there is any backlash at all on your motor/pinion setup. There should be a tiny amount.

One other thing, check out the video by Mr Mel regarding too long mounting screws that short on the inside of your motor. That kind of short will ruin your ESC, no matter what brand.

I can't think of anything else. I do know the Quantum motor runs the esc hot, which is why I went back to the 700MX

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
Amain Team Rep

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-30-2012 09:37 PM  5 years agoPost 11
Dr.Don

rrVeteran

Cedar Park, TX -- USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

+1 on the Mr.Mel video. Check the screw lengths as he shows. Something is blowing these esc's for you.

Dr.Don

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-31-2012 12:01 AM  5 years agoPost 12
PC12DRVR

rrKey Veteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks guys.

Heres the deal. Im using the Quantam 4530-500kv, 9.3:1 gear ratio slant gears.

ESC is like this. Fixed endpoints 80 an 90% flat throttle curves. Current limiting insensitive (280 amps) 12khz Pulse rate, voltage cutoff 3.2 volts.

Motor and ESC were both coming down in the 135 degree range.

I had a long conversation with Clint Atkins from castle and he was great. He told me that alot of motors do not actually test out at their rated Kv so I need to check that. And he also suggested that I go back to running in governor mode I guess its softer on the ESC.

I am still investigating data and havent had a chance to check everything yet but I will report if I find something that stands out.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-31-2012 12:19 AM  5 years agoPost 13
gwright

rrVeteran

Champaign Il

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

500 times 44.4 volts (12 cells)with a 9.3 ratio equates to 2387 rpms at full throttle. Since voltage is most likely above 44.4 with modern lipos then you probably have something around 2450 possible, so if your flying less than around maybe 2300 or so you have a LOT of headroom . if you have a good amount of pitch in the machine you could well be experiencing current surges far above the rating of the esc. Kinda like going uphill in 5th gear at low speed if that makes sense, only the electric power system will do it's best to maintain rpm, just drawing massive current to do it. if the actual kv is higher it skews it even further in the wrong direction.

Gary Wright

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-31-2012 01:16 AM  5 years agoPost 14
rcflyerheli

rrKey Veteran

Granbury, TX USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

500 times 44.4 volts (12 cells)with a 9.3 ratio equates to 2387 rpms at full throttle. Since voltage is most likely above 44.4 with modern lipos then you probably have something around 2450 possible, so if your flying less than around maybe 2300 or so you have a LOT of headroom . if you have a good amount of pitch in the machine you could well be experiencing current surges far above the rating of the esc. Kinda like going uphill in 5th gear at low speed if that makes sense, only the electric power system will do it's best to maintain rpm, just drawing massive current to do it. if the actual kv is higher it skews it even further in the wrong direction.
I don't disagree with what you posted; however, this situation has transitioned across two completely different motors, ESCs. The current limiting being at a value way above the rating of each ESC could be the cause if there is something binding in the setup. If the mounting bolts are too long and they short in the motor as Mr. Mel has shown, that would sure translate across two different motors and several ESCs.

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
Amain Team Rep

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-01-2012 06:48 PM  5 years agoPost 15
PC12DRVR

rrKey Veteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I did the data log on the motor and the KV is actually 510. I adjusted settings accordingly and im going to fly this afternoon. Fingers crossed. I lowered the timing to low, put it down to 8khz pwm ill see what the data log says tonight.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-02-2012 01:15 PM  5 years agoPost 16
PC12DRVR

rrKey Veteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Heres the data log from a flight yesterday. I did not see anything that should make a 160 go up in smoke but maybe im wrong.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-03-2012 10:21 PM  5 years agoPost 17
3Dmuse

rrApprentice

Ontario, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Heres the data log from a flight yesterday. I did not see anything that should make a 160 go up in smoke but maybe im wrong.

Your motor pinion needs to be stepped down a tooth or two. Your current gear ratio is not good for your ESC in the long term. Given, however, that for the past 12 months I've seen quite a few reports about the 160HVs going into flames and one recall from Castle, I'm more inclined to think that your 160HVs cremated themselves due to manufacturing/design problems.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-04-2012 01:06 AM  5 years agoPost 18
PC12DRVR

rrKey Veteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Can you share why ?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-06-2012 01:23 AM  5 years agoPost 19
3Dmuse

rrApprentice

Ontario, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Can you share why ?
Based on the graph you posted, the average value for Motor Power Out (the actual throttle that the motor sees) was 66.7%. For better ESC and motor efficiencies, this should be as close to 100% as possible. The governor needs some headroom, so 85-90% is what you want. Low partial throttles cause high current spikes in the system. The logger doesn't see these spikes. One would need lab grade equipment to see them. Nevertheless, the spikes are there and stress the ESC. This is how PWM motor control works... I would try a tooth less on the motor pinion.

Anyway, something seems wrong with the ICE 160HVs, design or manufacturing errors, both perhaps. Too many smoked in the last 12 months.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-06-2012 01:48 AM  5 years agoPost 20
PC12DRVR

rrKey Veteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks for the info. Id love to try your advice but to go down a pinion to an 11 tooth is a problem because the Quantam is already almost rubbing on the elevator servo mount, so I guess ill have to try a different motor thats smaller.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1813 views POST REPLY
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 11  Topic Subscribe

Tuesday, October 17 - 12:58 am - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online