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HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › How to fix the economy
08-28-2012 05:01 PM  5 years agoPost 1
Dusty1000

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Here's an IMF working paper which makes the following claims for the US economy, although I assume similar results would be forecast in any advanced economy, as we all basically have the same money supply systems. The following results are forecast if the proposed changes are made. While this paper does not represent the official view of the IMF, it does nevertheless seem to be extremely well researched.

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2012/wp12202.pdf
(1) Much better control of a major source of business cycle fluctuations, sudden increases and contractions of bank credit and of the supply of bank-created money.

(2) Complete elimination of bank runs.

(3) Dramatic reduction of the (net) public debt.

(4) Dramatic reduction of private debt, as money creation no longer requires simultaneous debt creation.

Furthermore, output gains approach 10 percent, and steady state inflation can drop to zero without posing problems for the conduct of monetary policy.
So, what are the proposed changes? Basically, it is to take the power of creating money away from commercial banks, that is the sort of bank you might have an account or a mortgage with, and return that power to government as per the US constitution. ''(Congress shall) coin money, and regulate the value thereof...''

This system has been used in the past and proposed on sites such as these for a while:

http://www.themoneymasters.com/

http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/

It's encouraging to see the IMF now produce a paper saying the same thing. The history of government versus privately issued money beginning on page 12 is particularly interesting. Here are a few highlights:
The monetary historian Alexander Del Mar (1895) writes: “As a rule political economists do not take the trouble to study the history of money; it is much easier to imagine it andto deduce the principles of this imaginary knowledge.” Del Mar wrote more than a century ago, but this statement still applies today.

The historical debate concerning the nature and control of money is the subject of Zarlenga (2002), a masterful work that traces this debate back to ancient Mesopotamia,Greece and Rome. Like Graeber (2011), he shows that private issuance of money has repeatedly led to major societal problems throughout recorded history, due to usury associated with private debts.16 Zarlenga does not adopt the common but simplistic definition of usury as the charging of “excessive interest”, but rather as “taking something for nothing” through the calculated misuse of a nation’s money system for private gain.

A discussion of the crises brought on by excessive debt in ancient Mesopotamia is contained in Hudson and van de Mierop (2002). It was this experience, acquired over millennia, that led to the prohibition of usury and/or to periodic debt forgiveness(“wiping the slate clean”) in the sacred texts of the main Middle Eastern religions. The earliest known example of such debt crises in Greek history are the 599 BC reforms of Solon, which were a response to a severe debt crisis of small farmers, brought on by the charging of interest on coinage by a wealthy oligarchy. It is extremely illuminating to realize that Solon’s reforms, at this very early time, already contained many elements of what Henry Simons (1948), a principal proponent of the Chicago Plan...

Solon’s reforms were so successful that, 150 years later, the early Roman republic sent a delegation to Greece to study them. They became the foundation of the Roman monetary system from 454 BC (Lex Aternia) until the time of the Punic wars (Peruzzi(1985)).
It was the English Free Coinage Act of 1666, which placed control of the money supply into private hands, and the founding of the privately controlled Bank of England in 1694, that first saw a major sovereign relinquishing monetary control, not only to the central bank but also to the private banking interests behind it. The following centuries would provide ample opportunities to compare the results of government and private control over money issuance.

The results for the United Kingdom are quite clear. Shaw (1896) examined the record of monarchs throughout English history, and found that, with one exception (Henry VIII),the king had used his monetary prerogative responsibly for the benefit of the nation, with no major financial crises. On the other hand, Del Mar (1895) finds that the Free Coinage Act inaugurated a series of commercial panics and disasters which to that time were completely unknown, and that between 1694 and 1890 twenty-five years never passed without a financial crisis in England.
The United States monetary experience provides similar lessons to that of the United Kingdom. Colonial paper monies issued by individual states were of the greatest economic advantage to the country (Franklin (1729)), and English suppression of such monies was one of the major reasons for the revolution (Del Mar (1895)). The Continental Currency issued during the revolutionary war was crucial for allowing the Continental Congress to finance the war effort. There was no over-issuance by the colonies, and the only reason why inflation eventually took hold was massive British counterfeiting (Franklin (1786), Schuckers (1874)).17 The government also managed the issuance of paper monies in the periods 1812-1817 and 1837-1857 conservatively and responsibly (Zarlenga (2002)). The Greenbacks issued by Lincoln during the Civil War were again a crucial tool for financing the war effort, and as documented by Randall (1937) and Studenski and Kroos (1952)their issuance was responsibly managed, resulting in comparatively less inflation than the financing of the war effort in World War I

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08-28-2012 07:28 PM  5 years agoPost 2
InvertedDude

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08-28-2012 08:00 PM  5 years agoPost 3
GREYEAGLE

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Yup -----Their they are ::: the Word's :::: International Monetary Fund and WE -----

See it's the WEE part

We do NOt have to be Part of the IMF

The best part of the story

You bought a WHOLE BUNCH of Magic bean's ! the IMF or the WEE part

and better

WE sold them to ya !!!!!! Ha !

Now do you know the rest of the story ?? Your dependence on on " WE" {THE PEOPLE}

Fee Fife Fo FUm ---- Is that the Blood of a -----

ANd then we go Wee - Wee -Wee all the way home

and all you have is your Majic sack of bean;s the IMF

Sell It Like Crazy : It's good for business : Especially the WE part

How's your inventory of magic bean's

As WE huff and Puff and --------

greyeagle

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08-28-2012 08:01 PM  5 years agoPost 4
spaceman spiff

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I dont know... i watched CSPAN for a few minutes once. I would rather ship those clowns off to another planet, not give them more authority.

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08-28-2012 08:01 PM  5 years agoPost 5
Dennis (RIP)

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The best and quickest way to fix the economy in the USA is to have a clean sweep and flush the big toilet in Washington DC this coming November.

Simple, uncomplicated and quick.

Once thats done, the rest of the world will follow up.

If they don't, then to h#ll with them.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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08-29-2012 01:04 AM  5 years agoPost 6
punkin71

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The problems in DC are only a side affect of the worlds debt-based monetary system. Read up on Austrian Economics.

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08-29-2012 05:32 PM  5 years agoPost 7
es1co2bar3

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The repelican are stumping up on cloud-9 like they 're not the problem starter. The only way to fix this country is for the DEM
to control the house again and let them sit on the side line and
say no to prosperty of them self. while we move this country forward in a better direction.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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08-29-2012 06:38 PM  5 years agoPost 8
InvertedDude

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08-29-2012 09:08 PM  5 years agoPost 9
es1co2bar3

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Here is some Kool-AID for you!
I drank enough and is now drunken with the democralogic
Dems did have control 100% for two years and it was enough to destroy this country.
The democrat was never in full control it that was the case
why they have a hard time passing all the measure they inplemented????
but you dont have a answer....'after kennedy died and pitzer} get the boots then this where thing change on the laws table.
"but they was never in full daminant mode.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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08-29-2012 11:59 PM  5 years agoPost 10
InvertedDude

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08-30-2012 02:32 PM  5 years agoPost 11
Dusty1000

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The problems in DC are only a side affect of the worlds debt-based monetary system.
Exactly. Our debt based money supplies are the main problem we have today. For those who don't yet realise why, here is a clear and simple explanation.

Watch at YouTube

Ignoring the youtube user's ''Rothschild'' reference, here is some more info. ''When a bank makes a loan, it doesn't lend money...''

Watch at YouTube

As for the debt based money system being global, Libya was the last notable country in the world to have no national debt. That is until the ''rebels'' took time out of their ''rebellion'' early in 2011, to set up a new central bank, and the west recognised the so-called ''transitional council'' as the leaders of Libya, which is when Libya acquired a national debt.

Here are some little known facts about bankers: Western banks including Barclays and Chase collaborated with the Nazis to steal the assets of murdered Jews. The German bankers were convicted at Nuremberg, but the rest got away with it. Roosevelt was working to expose them, but the investigations ended when he died. While on a national level, the then privately owned Bank of England defended Hitler's decision to transfer the gold reserves of the European countries the Nazis conquered, to Germany, so that it could continue to pay it's reparations for WW1, to the Bank of England, through the Bank of International Settlements. The Bank of England had the opportunity to stop the transfer, but it took no action. Never mind that the transfer would also have helped the German war effort in WW2, causing the deaths of allied troops and civilians.

Watch at YouTube

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10-30-2012 11:40 AM  4 years agoPost 12
Dusty1000

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Now being discussed in the press...
IMF's epic plan to conjure away debt and dethrone bankers

So there is a magic wand after all. A revolutionary paper by the International Monetary Fund claims that one could eliminate the net public debt of the US at a stroke, and by implication do the same for Britain, Germany, Italy, or Japan.

One could slash private debt by 100pc of GDP, boost growth, stabilize prices, and dethrone bankers all at the same time. It could be done cleanly and painlessly, by legislative command, far more quickly than anybody imagined.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ne-bankers.html
The International Monetary Fund (IMF) is arguably the single most powerful economic institution in the world. It can and does make and break the economies of nations. It was originally created just after World War Two with the apparently noble intention of helping to bring economic order to a planet riven by global holocaust. But that isn’t quite what happened.

So it isn’t often that you actually notice anything useful emerging from the IMF. Apart from the original concept of it, which had some merit, it’s actually pretty to difficult to think of anything at all done by the IMF that’s ever truly benefited humanity. So when two IMF economists, Jaromir Benes and Michael Kumhof produced a paper in August titled “The Chicago Plan Revisited”1, which has the potential to do exactly that – benefit humanity – the world really ought to sit up and take notice.
http://dissidentvoice.org/2012/10/i...e-truly-useful/

...but remember, you read it here first.

Dusty

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10-30-2012 12:40 PM  4 years agoPost 13
shawmcky

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Very interesting Dusty,thanks for posting,some things will have to change

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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10-30-2012 01:20 PM  4 years agoPost 14
fla heli boy

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actually inverted, the Dems had majorties from January of 2007 til January of 2011. AND the Whitehouse for the last 2 years of those 4. People need to pay attention to when our problems started (especially YOU esco). Problems started end of 2006, beginning of 2007. There's no coincidence in that.

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10-30-2012 02:37 PM  4 years agoPost 15
Noobyflyer

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10-30-2012 03:37 PM  4 years agoPost 16
Dusty1000

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There were a number of mistakes in my description of a modern money supply system in the OP, so I deleted them. Here is a correct description:

When a bank makes a loan, it lends money that doesn't exist. Just like the money you think you have in your bank account doesn't exist either. Your bank statement tells you how much the bank owes you, not how much you have in the bank.

All modern money supply systems work in roughly the same way, but I'll use the UK as an example because I know the figures. A country's money supply is measured by the broad money supply, which, simply speaking, is the sum of all bank deposits.

Prior to the financial crash, the broad money supply in the UK was around £1 trillion. That's money which doesn't exist, and never has existed, as anything other than numbers on bank statements.

Whereas bank reserves at that time were only around £20 billion (2% of the broad money supply), which together with all notes and coins in circulation, is called the narrow money supply. That's money which does exist, and it's the only money that exists.

So when a bank makes a loan, although it lends money that doesn't exist, it gives it's customer access to reserves which do exist. If bank A makes a loan, and the customer transfers the money to bank B, the same amount in reserves is transferred between the two banks' accounts at the central bank. If bank A is then short of reserves, it may have to borrow them back from bank B, which is where inter-bank lending comes in. So unless the customer withdraws money in cash, the money is simply transferred around the banking system, while customers move it, and banks lend it back to each other. Even when cash is withdrawn, in most cases it won't be long before it's spent on something, and deposited in someone else's bank. Bank reserves only need be enough to support daily transactions, and for banks to settle up with each other at the end of each day.

Now consider quantitative easing, which is often described as printing money. But it's printing narrow money, not broad money, which can be seen by the increase in bank reserves whenever it's carried out. Bank reserves in the UK have now increased from that £20 billion to over £120 billion, all thanks to quantitative easing. While the broad money supply has decreased from £1 trillion to less than £900 billion, because people are paying down loans, and banks are refusing to make new loans. The government claims quantitative easing is supposed to encourage banks to make loans, and most people imagine this to mean that the banks are expected to lend these new reserves - but that's BS, because banks don't need reserves to be able to make loans. Furthermore, their motivation to make loans is no longer there, because the government has given them all these new reserves.

Here's an interactive chart which shows how much countries owe to banks in other countries.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696

Bear in mind as well, that most of this money doesn't exist, and never has existed, except as numbers in bank accounts...

Dusty

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10-30-2012 03:41 PM  4 years agoPost 17
Dusty1000

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Problems started end of 2006, beginning of 2007.
That's only when the last bubble began to burst. In the context of this thread, the problem started in the 1600s.

Dusty

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10-30-2012 03:44 PM  4 years agoPost 18
Dusty1000

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And now we bring to order the official meeting of the Tinfoil Hats Society.
We will shamelessly bump an ancient post to garner self serving attention, while reptetiously rereading our posts to bask in the spotlight of our own genius.
Man, the world is missing out on all that smart
I bumped the thread because of the reports in the press which I posted. The Telegraph is the first English language mainstream media outlet to have reported on the IMF paper.

While you may use forums for ''garnering self serving attention while repetitiously rereading your posts to bask in the spotlight of your own genius,'' you would be wrong to assume that everyone else does the same. Personally, I find forums are an entertaining way to spread knowledge, and to learn from others. But, each to his own..

Which tinfoil hat society do you think the IMF is in?

Dusty

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10-30-2012 03:54 PM  4 years agoPost 19
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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Well Look at this way ; Scottland

How many Scottish Kipper's is a Dollar worth ??

greyeagle

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10-30-2012 03:56 PM  4 years agoPost 20
Dusty1000

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I don't know offhand, but kippers they are bound to be increasing in value relative to the dollar.

Dusty

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