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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsNoBar › V-Bar flybarless rotor head and flying nobar
08-28-2012 01:50 PM  5 years agoPost 1
slickporsche

rrVeteran

American/Philippines

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Its very responsive, and you do not need lightning fast servos and they are really a disadvantage. You need less throw to the head, to get what you want.

I flew my nobar Kavan Jet Ranger no Problem, and wore out my Legend FBL. WHich has a mechanically slowed pitch throw. You would need to find the pics of a Legend to see what I mean. Blades with a forward chordwise c.g. and heavier make it more tame. Of course that was years ago.

I'm currently flying a Kyosho Caliber FBL, and it is great, but I'm now onto a 3-blade head with it. Yeah it will do 3-D with the 3-blade head. Hirobo will also have a 3-blade head soon.

Just like a Huges 500E, it will be pitchy in the forward, but you can make adjustments for it. The gist of it is, if you want the same crispness you will get with a 3-axis gyro, you will need less throw, and slower servos might be better, or simply some Expo.

Why do I fly NoBar? I believe in the KISS principle. I don't like all the messing around setting up all the electronics, and plus I learned to fly that way, so I'm comfy with it. Its just me. There are quite a few others out there doing NoBar, but I have never asked anyone why they do it.

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08-28-2012 02:02 PM  5 years agoPost 2
wrongler

rrProfessor

Brewerton, New York

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I think you are the first person I have read about that prefers Nobar. Interesting!

Bill Whittaker

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08-28-2012 03:11 PM  5 years agoPost 3
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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I flew NOBAR for similar reasons. FBL unit technology is still in the bronze age (with the exception of the Vbar probably) and the results if you don't hold your nose juuust exactly right can be expensive or worse. Especially on a new unfamiliar machine.

The ultimate in simplicity and lowest number of failure points is a NOBAR machine with just a tail gyro on it.

A couple other advantages of NOBAR:
- excellent training on the cyclic. The pilot, not a FBL unit, has to fly the rotor disk through both the good and the bad. This really gets your skills on the cyclic engrained.
- naturalness in the hover is given back to you by eliminating the gyros. It's almost a suped-up flybar feel around center stick. True, you have to do a lot more correcting, but if you don't like the synthetic/simulator feel in the hover, NOBAR is the ticket.
- a flybar like behavior in autorotations. Especially in the flare and setdown, NOBAR is just like a flybar - nice coushiony rotor stability as the rotor speed bleeds off, no artificial compensation by a FBL unit.

I'm all but out of the hobby now, with my two electrics both of which still have Beasts on them. If I return to flying, tho, I may go back to NOBAR on the 700E. The Whippy is setup for 6S so I need a FBL unit on it.

But NOBAR is the most fun you can have with a FBL heli without even having to go up and around the pattern

LS

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08-28-2012 04:34 PM  5 years agoPost 4
slickporsche

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American/Philippines

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wrongler

I would love to take you up in a HUGHs 500E, It might just scare the crap out of you. You either fly it or do some "real Smackdown".

You see wrongler, I am a very independent person, that follows no crowd, no trends or fads. I do my own thing, like it or not.

Also I'm a pilot, and like to be in total control of the machine, be it full size, or rc model. I like that tight positive control feel. Kind of like tight Pu Tang if you know what I mean.

In addition Wrongler you may not have heard about anyone liking NoBar, but they Evidently did not know what they were doing, or like mommy helping them fly. I know there are many others out there, doing NoBar, and I suspect they are also independent no followers also.

It all boils down to what you want I guess. UncleJane had the best explaination yet. 100% right on!

Of course I know that no one has trouble setting up their 3-axis gyro, and they all understand it fully, so they have no problems.

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08-28-2012 04:47 PM  5 years agoPost 5
slickporsche

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American/Philippines

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Flybarless rotor head and flying nobar

I sincerely wish some heli manufacturer would step up to the plate, and build a head just for NoBar. If people would try it, they would be in love all over again just like the first time.LOL Now with the 3-blade heads for aerobatics coming, from different manufacturer, OH baby bring it on. Go to Hirobos site, and see what the world champ does with it. Totally wonderful. Of course he probably has a 3-axis, but I don't really know, and he is the world champ.

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08-28-2012 04:47 PM  5 years agoPost 6
wrongler

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Brewerton, New York

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Slickporshe, I have had enough crap scared out of me in the past, so I will have to pass on the flight in the Huges 500E. Maybe some day when I get bored again I might try nobar again.

Bill Whittaker

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08-28-2012 04:50 PM  5 years agoPost 7
slickporsche

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American/Philippines

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Wrongler

Yeah me too man. I hear ya. If you do get bored, give it a try and be surprise how much fun it is. Really! Until then, keep them rotors spinnin, and the dirt where it belongs.

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08-28-2012 05:24 PM  5 years agoPost 8
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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So exactly how is the head different for NOBAR and a FBL Heli???

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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08-28-2012 07:27 PM  5 years agoPost 9
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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I would add that I'm not really opposed to using gyros on the cyclic. This is r/c after all, which is completely different from full-scale flying. Apart from the completely different flight experience, FS is generally a lot easier since you're sitting in it. You only have to learn one skill set and the aircraft is never 1/4 of a mile away as a little dot in the sky in some wierd orientation you're not used to, with no airspeed indicator and no control force feedback.

So in r/c I don't think it's necessarily bad to have help on the cyclic (i.e. just like gyros are now accepted on the tail). It just depends on what kind of fun you want to have.

All that said, virtually everyone I've seen poopoo NOBAR either never tried it or only tried it once or twice without getting used to it. Very few that I know who flew a fair bit of NOBAR came away from it going OMG it's impossible and I'll never do it again.... Or said it didn't have some enjoyment and increased skill associated with it.

Most folks, OTOH, discover that the machine is quite controllable and end up having a lot of fun with it. No you'll probably never win any F3C contests without gyro compensation, but you'll have at least as much fun as them, if not more.

And the simplicity is a godsend. No more drifting, kicking or goofballness. You do it all with the sticks and don't have to worry about all that

LS

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08-28-2012 08:03 PM  5 years agoPost 10
AAKEE

rrApprentice

Boden, Sweden

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But the tail gyro still is on ?

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08-28-2012 10:29 PM  5 years agoPost 11
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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NoBar....

Good name for it!!!!
I have flown in the past with nobar, and as stated, after you get used to it, you can enjoy it...
It will teach you how to "mod" your set up so that it is comfortable to fly, and it will teach you a thing or two about flying too...
My first nobar was a Trex450 in a EC 135 fuselage... it was a 4 blade head, and I had to make up a 4 blade tail unit for it too because of the torque of the 4 blade main...
The second one was a Trex 600 with a 3 blade head in a "Squirrel" fuselage with a "Lightening Head" that everyone swore would not fly and was a piece of junk!!!! I still have it and will probably be flying it in a couple of weeks at the next event I attend...
And the third was a Vario Benzin trainer with a Vario 5 blade head.. this one LOVED to hover and ballon in FFF....but I was able to tame it and flew it for awhile like this...
The machines that I use in competition all now have stabi systems on them, but I am the guy that complains when it feels that I am "fighting" the gyros, and from reading this post, I now think I have a pretty good idea of why my stabi systems really need to be set low for me to relax and let them do some of the work!!!! Plus a little age on and the reflexes are not quite as fast as they used to be... but I am still having fun!!!! And that is what his hobby is supposed to be about!!!! Thanks to the OP... very interesting thread... Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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09-01-2012 08:38 AM  5 years agoPost 12
GetToDaChopper

rrElite Veteran

Las Vegas , NV

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if your flying NOBAR why is the thread pefixed "V-Bar" unless your just using it as a tail gyro, in that case it seems like a big waste of a v-bar to me.......
So exactly how is the head different for NOBAR and a FBL Heli???
i'd like to know this as well........

    ▲
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▲ ▲ ▲ One of a Kind !!!

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09-01-2012 01:45 PM  5 years agoPost 13
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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I Take A "Stab" At It!!!!!

There is no difference in a nobar head vs a FBL head...at least in my case... the only difference is that the FBL head is being flown with the assistance of a stabi system, where a nobar has no help from gyros, except for the tail gyro...some of the "older" FBL heads had different mixing and possibly softer dampners to help a little with a coning angle (sort of like diheadral in an airplane wing)...
At least this is my interpurtation....

Todays two bladed heads are not hard to mod into a FBL head, buy just removing the flybar and mixing parts and adding a follower to hold the inner swashplate in the proper location for phasing, and a couple of longer pushrods... and then add your stabi system...there certainly are enough to choose from now too!!!

Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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