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Other › So what's the weight like now? flight times
08-30-2012 02:42 AM  5 years agoPost 21
jesse

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Houston, TX.

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Thanks dave, that gives me hope. I really want a new logo. Just have to wait till they sell it as a kit only form. I really thought the exxtreme would have already been offered as a kit already but I guess as long as it's in demand no point in changing it specially when you still can't keep it in stock. I'll keep an eye out for you alls results.

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08-30-2012 04:39 AM  5 years agoPost 22
dahld

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Bakersfield, CA, USA

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@ KC,

Well, at this point I'm probably damned either way

But sorry if I touched a nerve. But by saying "business outsiders", I simply meant if you buy helis as part of your hobby, rather than produce them as part of your livelihood, then you're a "business outsider". Business outsider means business outsider. Nothing in that comment refers to the hobbyist.

I've no doubt that you are (as you said), "...hardly an outsider to this business"...which I take to mean a longtime participant in the hobby, with lots of experience. And that's exactly what I think.

I hope you can see what I meant by the phrase "business outsider", especially when it was used in context in a discussion about producing helis, and not that I though you had no experience in the hobby. I hope that clears-up and defuses that point.

As for the "cost" comment, I think you missed what I said. I said, "...that's easy to say when the only one that DOESN'T get hurt in a bad business decision is the consumer..."

Then you you said, "..."cost" meant cost to Mikado, not the cost of the heli for those of us who are CUSTOMERS..". Well, that's exactly what I was saying. The cost to Mikado is where the gamble would have been (and their decision to take it or not). I wasn't referring to the consumer's cost of buying the product. Sounds like we're on the same page on that. Hope that defuses that issue.

And as far as the concept that companies should follow the wants of the consumer (the "timing" issue)...well, would it help to say that Mikado did listen, heard the cry for molded frames, knew they would be better (which is why they're want to make them in the future), would have preferred to do it that way (which is all true), but COULDN'T AFFORD TO DO IT.

To help understand the situation, the 700 market was passing Mikado by. They were one of the last companies to offer an electric 700. The economy is tight, revenues are limited, they are a small company, they were not in a position to go with the molded frames, but there was a pressing need to get a 700 class electric to the market. But the molded frames were out of the picture. So...

So I hope you can understand, that regardless of what we all think or want, that it's up to Mikado to run their business as they see fit (which was the content of the conversation to begin with).

And your comments like, "...that YOU don't want to listen to..", and "...us lowly outsiders..."

Well, I'll guess my post just pissed you off. But I'm not the one who does the listening (that would be Mikado), and saying I characterize other people in the hobby as "lowly" is just unfounded.

So, with all that, hope you're still a "Mikadoite",

(-: Dave

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08-30-2012 04:46 AM  5 years agoPost 23
Futura SE

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Fayetteville, Arkansas

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To help understand the situation, the 700 market was passing Mikado by. They were one of the last companies to offer an electric 700.
This is very true. Every company out there offers a 700 class helicopter but I always wanted a Logo 700.

Don't worry there is LOTS of room for a great flying 700 class machine. Lots of companies produce them but...

Hopefully I am only days/weeks away from getting my hands on one, not months.

Norman Ross Jr.

Team Mikado USA -- Team Insane Canopy -- Team Scorpion -- Team Evo Power Batteries

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08-30-2012 05:23 PM  5 years agoPost 24
jtjohn1

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Sykesville, MD, USA

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To help understand the situation, the 700 market was passing Mikado by. They were one of the last companies to offer an electric 700. The economy is tight, revenues are limited, they are a small company, they were not in a position to go with the molded frames, but there was a pressing need to get a 700 class electric to the market. But the molded frames were out of the picture. So...
Soooo they released an 800

Sorry couldn't help myself

I actually love my XXtreme it was just too perfect an opportunity to pass up

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08-30-2012 05:35 PM  5 years agoPost 25
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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KC, I seriously doubt Dave meant anything by what he said. If you look back at any of his posts, they are factual and helpful.
I too want a reasonably weighted 700. Too light and it gets pushed around like the 600SE....too heavy and it is no fun to fly. I think 11.5 lbs rts would be the sweet spot and hopefully it will be close to that. My Goblin weighs 11.8 rtf and it does not feel like it is heavy at all.......Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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08-30-2012 06:05 PM  5 years agoPost 26
dahld

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Bakersfield, CA, USA

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@ jtjohn1,

Yea, on the surface it looks pretty weird how they went about it. But there is a LOOOOG story about how all that came about. The 800 didn't start out as an 800, and I'll just leave it at that.

And back to my original point. It's Mikado's business and their choices. All we can do is buy or not buy...and do a little bitchin' along the way if we don't get what we want when we want it

(-: Dave

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08-30-2012 06:29 PM  5 years agoPost 27
jtjohn1

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Sykesville, MD, USA

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800, and I'll just leave it at that.

And back to my original point. It's Mikado's business and their choices. All we can do is buy or not buy...and do a little bitchin' along the way if we don't get what we want when we want it
Oh I agree totally. That was just to good a segway to pass up.

Mikado (However nice they are when you meet them and however much they go out of thier way to help folks) is in this buisness to make money (If for no other reason than to continue to make great helicopters)

I am sure they did a cost/benifit analysis and decided that molded frames AT THIS TIME were to expensive (Due to a host of factors like cash on hand/economy etc etc) so they went with THIER best choice (Not OUR best choice)

It's to their credit that they are THINKING about the molded parts somewhere in the future.

It would be nice if you guys were able to test out the 600SE with the new SX Parts on it at "700" ish head speeds and then pass along to Mikado what needs to be beefed up for an SX upgrade for the SE (Of course it's already been mentioned you could call it SEX. After all SEX sales).

An SX upgrade specifically designed FOR the SE (And designed in a way that would allow it to run 12S ~2000-2100 head speed reliably) would give customers both options (A TRUE 700 that you can use 700mm+ blades and high head speeds that is BULLET proof and a ultra light weight 700 that runs 693s and is limited in that it's capable of running true 700 head speeds but not something WAY radical)

They already almost have it to that point anyway (If the SX upgrades work well) you would need maybe a beafier one way bearing/grips and viola there ya go!!

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08-30-2012 06:42 PM  5 years agoPost 28
HeliMan Dave

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Suburban Chicago

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Ron, you must be running 5000's or larger in that Goblin. In this vid (

Watch at YouTube

the packs are 12s 4400's and the RTF weight is only 10 lbs 12oz.

The 7HV (with same setup/packs) is 11 lbs 3oz.

I would hope the molded frame Logo 700 would be no heavier than 11 lbs 8oz with 12s 5000's.

Logo 700 / 600 / 500 V-Bar NEO / Blade 180CFX / mCPX BL / Nano / V-Control

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09-03-2012 10:34 PM  5 years agoPost 29
KC

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WA

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@Dave, not pissed with you, just seeing where things are going…..

My opinion, after a good dose of Germany is….Germans as a whole do not like uncertainty, they usually come prepared to a meeting with an opinion already formed after much research, it is unlikely to change in that meeting even after new intel is introduced (they’re very cautious, got to research the new intel themselves first), they do not follow their “gut” or “hunches” and they stay to a course that is grounded in technical analysis….and they are very well known for not borrowing money or investing.

If Beethoven wrote the 4th movement of his 9th symphony BEFORE writing the 2nd movement of his 7th symphony, the people with money to say “we’re confident you can make a tenth and will gladly loan you a couple hundred grand if that is all it takes” would be thinking “you went from making one the most soul stirring pieces of music that humanity will be playing long after we are all dead, to making something that sounds more like ‘Du Hast’ by Rammstein in comparison”

From a designer’s standpoint, the 600 signifies what’s coming, the 700 and 800 are, “I’ve seen this already….looks like something from accounting”

That’s all my criticism of going back to flat plate frames really is…..there are new plastic technologies beyond molding which are cheaper and will produce lighter parts. These are right up Ralf’s alley and it would be a bad move to not get in on them.

---
btw you guys should start flying to some German metal music in your routines....if you tossed this thing around in a video with some German sounds that matched 'xxtreme' (i.e Rammstein 'Engel' ), I know I would buy it

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09-03-2012 10:42 PM  5 years agoPost 30
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Ron, you must be running 5000's or larger in that Goblin.
Why yes I am.......12s 5300s

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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09-04-2012 12:03 AM  5 years agoPost 31
dahld

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Bakersfield, CA, USA

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@ KC

I think you hit the nail on the head in your post. Must be why Germany is the only (well, at least one of the few), Euro-zone countries that's not going bankrupt. Everyone want Germany to bail them out.

Your quote, "From a designer’s standpoint, the 600 signifies what’s coming, the 700 and 800 are, “I’ve seen this already….looks like something from accounting”".

(-: Dave

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09-04-2012 12:47 AM  5 years agoPost 32
gologo

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Sedalia, Mo USA

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Heliman Dave, great video! Lot of good info there.

Does not help my resistance to a Goblin AT ALL!!!

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09-04-2012 02:13 AM  5 years agoPost 33
Qrrambero

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San Francisco / Bay Area

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(well, at least one of the few), Euro-zone countries that's not going bankrupt.

Because the Chancellor is a Woman. The rest you figure it out.

Ae

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09-29-2012 02:03 AM  5 years agoPost 34
sseppala

rrApprentice

Rindge, NH 03461

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What's the weight? Flight times?

This is a great thread. Gives me real insight into what I had observed at the Heli Phenom watching Jamie Robertson and Ben Storick fly the 600 3D and the new 700. I guess my observation was correct, the 700 is more difficult to fly smackdown with than the 600.
It is not only about weight but may have something to do with belts being used when the weight and mass are high (like around 12 lbs.)Think Synergy E7
Just a guess nothing scientific.
Happy to be trying a Logo.
sseppala

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09-30-2012 09:24 AM  5 years agoPost 35
pcskyhi

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Houston, TX

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Synergy E7, nothing more than a 600 size bird with a 700 boom, not a true 700 size bird.
Just my opinion but I think a lot of RC heli pilots today entered this hobby during the "Align Era" and have made the size of their birds the standard for the industry. When the Align 700 was released it was and still is smaller than my Hirobo and Robbe 60 sized birds which also made it lighter and apparently that it what the consumer has gotten used to. There is nothing wrong with that but some companies such as Mikado, Compass, Minature Aircraft, Cy enterprises and others have decided to not follow the footprint of Align (and others who choose to follow Aligns style) and made there 700 size birds bigger and beefier to handle the current and future power systems out there being made. There is a reason Align has the biggest aftermarket and I will just leave it at that. Some companies design/build for the moment and others for the future.
If you are looking for a light 700 get a 600 size bird, stick 700 size boom on it and you have that light 700 you are looking for. By the way Mikado already has that for you, called the SE. Mikado is building this for the people who appreciate a true size 700. The great thing about being a consumer is you don't have to buy it if you don't want it and there are many other choices out there that fit what you want. When you purchase a car you go find the vehicle that fits you. you don't rant an rave about what a car company does not have for you. you simply go out and find the brand that fits you and move on. If Mikado's 700 is not for you, move on because just like the car companies, Mikado is marching forward with this 700 and there is nothing we can do about it but use our power as a consumer to buy or not buy.

pcskyhi - live and learn

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