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HelicopterMain Discussion › IRCHA RUMORS (and Truths)
08-26-2012 03:44 PM  5 years agoPost 141
Frank Bostwick

rrElite Veteran

Cincinnati Ohio

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Well said Ace

RIP ROMAN

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08-26-2012 08:23 PM  5 years agoPost 142
Ace Dude

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USA

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Thanks, FBoss.

  

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08-27-2012 12:27 AM  5 years agoPost 143
Darkbird

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Jackson Michigan

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Not trying to start more stuff, but did anyone actually witness anyone FUI, so to speak? Drunk on the carts is bad enough, hate to think anyone would be so irresponsible as to fly after drinking. That thought really scares me.
As for any extra saftey measures, I remain unconvinced. Common sense is always your best defense in these situations. For example, when the machine hit the tent, I heared someone yell and immediately looked up, and so watched as it arced up behind the flightline, and was able to determine that my wife and I were safe sitting in our golfcart( I even grabbed her to keep her from diving for the tent I thought it was going to hit). I know not everyone would "get it" under those conditions, but I think this may be better than putting up a net and just having some local spectator think they woud be safe just because there is a net there. Not to mention, have you ever seen kids when a net or fence is involved? It becomes something for them to lean or hang on or to attempt to play with. Sadly this is true for some adults as well. What good will the net be with people sitting/standing a foot from it? People barely respect any lines or barriers now, you would need to have a couple people just keeping the crowd back from the net. I think a better approach would be to put up some signs around the sight warning people of the dangers and giving some simple saftey tips or something. Yes, there would be people who won't bother to read the signs, likely the same ones who would sit too close to the fence/net/barrier and not be paying the least attention to what was going on around them.
Sorry this was so long, I'm not always good at getting my point across in the fewest words possible

"Whadda ya mean "There's a loose nut behind the transmitter!"?"

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08-27-2012 01:17 AM  5 years agoPost 144
jbjones

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Columbus, Mississippi

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Ace Dude
The reason you loose your freedoms is because you did not govern yourself wisely to begin with.
Truer words have never been spoken. Since all of this jazz is now in the public domain, I foresee a change in the next jamboree, if not all large events. We will all suffer because of it. A loss of freedom is never a good thing, even if it is in the name of "safety".

Oh, and this is not a shot at gentleman that was run over by a drunken asshole. I respect you, sir, for your adult manner in dealing with the matter. We all should. I salute you.

-JB

J. B. Jones

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08-27-2012 03:03 AM  5 years agoPost 145
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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I think a better approach would be to put up some signs around the sight warning people of the dangers and giving some simple saftey tips or something. Yes, there would be people who won't bother to read the signs, likely the same ones who would sit too close to the fence/net/barrier and not be paying the least attention to what was going on around them.
I'm sorry, but I don't think signage is suitable solution for a safety net. The safety solution should be designed to protect the general public and we should assume they know absolutely nothing about the capabilities of an RC heli.

It would be quite easy to put a barrier fence several feet behind the a safety net so folks could sit at or hang on to the safety net.

  

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08-27-2012 03:50 AM  5 years agoPost 146
RFHUNTER

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The Woodlands, Texas, USA

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Just take a look at the practice range for golfers, they are all sorounded by nets. when there is a will ther is a way.
better to be safe than sorry!!!!!

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08-27-2012 04:11 AM  5 years agoPost 147
Tag1260

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Ohio USA

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Why not just move the vendors and participants tents to another "no fly zone" area. Then everyone in the spectator area will be aware of what's going on.
I mean, I personally don't believe nets and fences will do any good. These things are just too big and fast for them to stop 'em. But you guys feel the need to do something...

Eventually, with enough crying about safety, maybe we should just stop holding the event all together. If your that worried stay home and watch it on RR. I can tell you it ain't the same but I wasn't worried about getting hit with anything. On the other hand, I never worried about it when I attended either!!!!

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08-27-2012 12:26 PM  5 years agoPost 148
PBusch

rrKey Veteran

Minnesota

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When I was there in 09 I was amazed at how large the field was. A simple solution would be to SPREAD OUT and use more of the land. If I remember right you could move the flight line out at least another hundred feet (maybe not).

Just a thought

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08-27-2012 12:43 PM  5 years agoPost 149
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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I just feel the need to clarify my thoughts.
These are my personal thoughts on the subject.

1. A safety net at center stage only, Length/Height TBD.
2. No carts on actual vendor row. The area directly in front of
Vendor tents. And/or separating walkers from carts
3. Increased safety awareness of proper cart operation. Encouragement
of peer pressure to drive safely. (People driving unsafe should
be told so) Personally Im OK with underage driving, if the
driving is done safely.
4. Method for DUI enforcement with a common sense approach. (Open
containers do not make a DUI)

I'd like to see some improvements with out going over board. Im not a fan of "Ruling" out the fun. If we dont apply some common sense to these issues and address what is plain to see events will transpire and the fixes will be imposed upon us.

RIP ROMAN

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08-27-2012 06:00 PM  5 years agoPost 150
Darkbird

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Jackson Michigan

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How bout an enclosed( 3sides and top) area as a family area? It would give those who want it protection, while not taking away from those who don't. Not sure how big this would have to be to be practical, but seems it might be a step in the right direction.
Also keep in mind when referencing the nets used at golf courses that those are permanent fixtures. Much easier to make them tall if you can cement the poles in!

"Whadda ya mean "There's a loose nut behind the transmitter!"?"

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08-27-2012 06:06 PM  5 years agoPost 151
Ace Dude

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USA

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The AMA national flying site in Muncie is just as permanent as any golf course. IRCHA is not the only event held at the site.

  

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08-27-2012 06:35 PM  5 years agoPost 152
Fastsrt

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Lebanon, Tn

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How bout an enclosed( 3sides and top) area as a family area? It would give those who want it protection, while not taking away from those who don't.
These areas are already on site, they are called your personal vehicle.

This is starting to go to far. I know safety is important but common sense and safety do go together. If heli's were landing in vendor row or peoples pit area daily then yea there would be a problem and something would have been done already. Out of the past 5 years I have been I have only seen a couple of incidents but there were no injuries so they weren't accidents. I haven't read near as much rant or opinions of the past years compared to this year.

Has this same issue been posted up in a XFC post that is held on the same property but yet includes heli's and planks that are big enough you could almost hitch a ride on? That is a lot of possible splinter projectiles. I guess you would want a clear acrylic wall in place to protect from that?

XFC has had an injury i know. Ircha is fine just as it is and has been for as long as I have been attending. I say leave it be.

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08-27-2012 06:52 PM  5 years agoPost 153
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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It can be done before an event, with all the choices left up to "Us" or we can wait and be told how. Whats registration gonna cost when the insurance premium quadruples or more? You folks are acting like the government is confiscating your cars! A fence is SOP across the pond, its really not that big a deal IMO. Its been said, its all common sense, I totally agree, a moderate size barrier seems like common sense to me. Leaving the rest of the line open seems like a pretty good compromise cost benefit wise as well. Separating the carts and walking people, thats not common sense? Stopping falling down drunks from driving carts, I know thats draconian. Like I said before, a fence will go up, its just a matter of weather Murphy or the community choose when and how.

RIP ROMAN

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08-27-2012 06:55 PM  5 years agoPost 154
Ace Dude

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USA

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XFC 35 highly skilled individually selected pilots flying in a competition event.

IRCHA 1,000+ pilots of all skill levels flying in a non-competition event.
Out of the past 5 years I have been I have only seen a couple of incidents but there were no injuries so they weren't accidents.
XFC has had an injury i know.
Is IRCHA on borrowed time? I hope not.

  

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08-27-2012 06:58 PM  5 years agoPost 155
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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It can be done before an event, with all the choices left up to "Us" or we can wait and be told how. Whats registration gonna cost when the insurance premium quadruples or more? You folks are acting like the government is confiscating your cars! A fence is SOP across the pond, its really not that big a deal IMO. Its been said, its all common sense, I totally agree, a moderate size barrier seems like common sense to me. Leaving the rest of the line open seems like a pretty good compromise cost benefit wise as well. Separating the carts and walking people, thats not common sense? Stopping falling down drunks from driving carts, I know thats draconian. Like I said before, a fence will go up, its just a matter of weather Murphy or the community choose when and how.
+1!

I've never heard anyone complain about the fence across the pond.

  

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08-27-2012 10:17 PM  5 years agoPost 156
Mike Fortin

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USA

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XFC pushed helis out to fly over the grass, not over the runway. This added an extra layer of protection.

IRCHA pushes the pilots at center stage out during noon time demos and shuts down the adjacent flight stations. Also keeps spectators back a decent distance.

Nets, fences, brick walls are all great to stop a heli that's flying 6 feet off the ground, but what about the one that's well above that and simply flys over the net, fence or wall past the flight line, over the road and lands on a grill on the side of Kevin Cordell's RV.... (just an example)

The bottom line is that there is no fool proof protection and no matter how hard people try to keep others safe there are going to be others that say your extensive measures simply aren't enough.

It would be nice to have a big net behind the pilot, but inevitably there will then be those who complain they couldn't see or that the holes in the net were to big or whatever...

We can debate how wide, how high, how thick and so on for days, months and almost a year before the next IRCHA but at some point we have to stop putting this on AMA, IRCHA or any other organizers and start looking at ourselves...the pilots doing stuff that could potentially put others in danger.

I don't see why it's so hard for some of you to simply open your mouths if you see people doing something stupid at an event instead of coming on an internet forum 2 weeks later and complaining about it.

Now, if your a drunk and driving a golf cart and being stupid then you should be booted from the event and that should go for anyone being reckless with the carts drunk or not.

Fly safe.

Have Rotors, Will Fly!

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08-27-2012 10:41 PM  5 years agoPost 157
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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Mike I agree with what you said. Fool proof is an unrealistic goal. Perfectly safe is an impossible goal and who would want it, were it possible.

I promise, one of the first few questions looked at closely will be, "Did they do what a reasonable person would to protect the spectators?" "Did they do at least the minimum a reasonable person would have done?" Unfortunately that is a very subjective question and one litigators have made billions on.

I didnt get in this to be Mr safety or lead the crusade but here I am so I may as well say what I think no matter how unpopular. I have loved going too IRCHA each of the last 3 years and plan on going for the foreseeable future. Fence or no, I like being right up front too.

which brings me to an important point we all keep mixing. The registered pilots and many others in attendance know the risk clearly and have zero issue taking it. MA, PA and the kiddies dont. Center stage, is where they naturally go. I was there from thursday night, set my tent up in the rain, joy. And spent most of my time center stage. The spectators were often less than 15' from the demo station. I couldnt count the number of small kids (sub 10ish) that sat in the grass right up front, in total. Not all the time but more often than not. Everyday. Some paying close attention some wondering when they could get back to level 4 in the xbox. Ma and Pa may be right there with em or back on the bleachers......So, and considering SOP in Europe, How are WE not AMA or IRCHA alone but how are WE gonna answer the attorney for the kids family?
Have we supplied reasonable protection?

RIP ROMAN

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08-27-2012 10:53 PM  5 years agoPost 158
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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Have we supplied reasonable protection?
Hurricane maneuver, 60+ MPH, flown at eye level. At some point in they maneuver the heli is head directly to towards the spectators. No physical barrier what so ever. That doesn't sound like reasonable protection to me.

Like FBoss said, it's not going to stop me from going to IRCHA. But, unless I'm spotting for someone, I'm not going to be at the flight line or in the first row of spectators either.

  

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08-27-2012 10:54 PM  5 years agoPost 159
marc8090

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Long Island, N.Y.

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Out of the past 5 years I have been I have only seen a couple of incidents but there were no injuries so they weren't accidents.[quote]

At IRCHA 2007 there were 2 serious injuries, both from pilots being hit by flying helicopters. One flew into himself and the other was a photographer during the noon time demos.

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08-27-2012 10:55 PM  5 years agoPost 160
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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I'm not one to be on the "safety patrol" either, but when I hear a "look out," see the crowd part, and then see a helicopter crash-land right in the middle of the center-stage viewing are, it makes me worry something is going to happen and then the powers-that-be are going to take my hobby away.

If not a net, how about a least some warning signs that we put around center stage. Or perhaps a visitor's/spectator's location which is clearly delineated with ushers directing people to that area. I know they are a lot of stupid warning signs (like the "warning hot" on the side of a cup of McDonalds coffee), but that seems to be the nature of the world we live in.

I personally don't really want to have a net, but at the same time I don't want some kid to get killed and then I'm stuck with RC cars.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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HelicopterMain Discussion › IRCHA RUMORS (and Truths)
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