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06-08-2012 09:15 PM  5 years agoPost 1
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Gasoline has about 36KWh of energy per gallon
. . . that's $3.60 per gallon electrical equalivent using 10 cents per KWh

Knowing that the typical car gasoline engine is only about 33% efficient . . .
. . . that's $10.80 per gallon equalivent for mechanical energy obtained.

Therefore . . . a plug in the wall to charge up car costs 1/3 the price of fuel to operate, $24 for enough electricity to equal 20 gallons of gasoline.

. . . now if only the car price could come down and charging was easier and quicker and more convenient.

20 gallons of gasoline equals 240KWh of electricity (after in-efficiencies)
. . . that's a 12S5200 pack of LiPos . . . times 1,000
. . . that's close to 2000lbs of battery or 120lbs of gasoline.

240KWh . . . think about it . . . that's 50 amps on a 240V line for 20 hours

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06-08-2012 09:39 PM  5 years agoPost 2
jcrack_corn

rrVeteran

End of Time

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I agree with your numbers but not your logic.

This country will not average 8-10c/KWh for electricity costs as time goes on *assuming increased load demand*.

If even a marginal percentage of the country begins using electric vehicles not only will the transmission grid need improvements, but millions of homes will need to service drops(how many 60a and 100a service drops are there out there, those will be insufficient), and that is before we even get into the production aspect. We cant build more coal plants (EPA, coal supply), we cant build more nuclear (EPA, NRC, etc), we cant build more hydro (EPA, cost, access), wind is insufficient, solar is insufficient, etc etc etc.

The *only* way the transition from gas to electric is made is if the transition to nuclear is also made.

its been 16 years since the newest nuclear plant in US and nuclear only provides 20% of the CURRENT US electricity demand.

In any case, to provide wide scale high current power for a country of electric cars, the cost of that power would rise dramatically (I can even envision digital signatures on the grid, where power used for charging a car is taxed/cost much more than power for heating a home).

jmho

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06-08-2012 11:54 PM  5 years agoPost 3
BladeStrikes

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Shelby TWP,Mi

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I live a few miles from the GM Tech center and know people that work there..Them cars will work better for suicide bombers in Iraq ..

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06-09-2012 12:47 PM  5 years agoPost 4
shawmcky

rrElite Veteran

Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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Whatever the source,there will have to be some folks making a lot of money out of it or wont work If they made a car run on human waste,you watch the price of beer rocket

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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06-09-2012 01:49 PM  5 years agoPost 5
fla heli boy

rrKey Veteran

cape coral, florida

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oh god, PLEASE don't say THAT Shaw!!!!

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06-09-2012 02:09 PM  5 years agoPost 6
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

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Your assuming if the battery doesnt go T!TS up and you have to fork out a ton of money for a new one.....

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

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06-09-2012 06:03 PM  5 years agoPost 7
Hughes500Pilot

rrKey Veteran

Anaheim, CA

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Guy I know (very rich, with money to burn) "bricked" his Tesla Roadster. $40,000.00 cost to replace the battery pack... He is not too happy. -Steve

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06-09-2012 11:36 PM  5 years agoPost 8
fla heli boy

rrKey Veteran

cape coral, florida

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reminds me of the early 90's when e-helis were in their infancy. Remember the Kalt Whisper??? Cars will become viable, but it's YEARS away.

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06-10-2012 04:04 AM  5 years agoPost 9
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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some 36 years ago a guy designed a 50 MPG carburetor, GM, Ford and Mopar stopped him from putting it on the market, the point> if they could make a V8 run for 50 miles on a gallon a gas back in the mid 70s today they sould get 150 MPG in a V6

simply put, the problem is the Government is not making these Car manufacturers do the right thing

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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06-10-2012 06:25 AM  5 years agoPost 10
fla heli boy

rrKey Veteran

cape coral, florida

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not sure that makes sense, unless you're implying car builders are in bed with big oil, then it makes some sense. Otherwise, why would GM care about gas economy???

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06-10-2012 08:21 AM  5 years agoPost 11
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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""why would GM care about gas economy""

I'm not sure that makes sense LOL, GM cares only to the point to where they are competitive with other Car manufacturers, like I said, if our government cared our cars would get much better MPG, we have had the technology since the 70s

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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06-10-2012 01:30 PM  5 years agoPost 12
fla heli boy

rrKey Veteran

cape coral, florida

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what I MEANT was....they would care to make their mileage BETTER to give themselves a competitive sales edge.
What I was trying to say is, why would they stop the guy from putting a 50 mpg carb on the market?? Why not buy him out, put him to work and own the car world with vehicles getting 2-3x's the gas mileage??? There's no incentive to keep mileage low.

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06-10-2012 01:51 PM  5 years agoPost 13
ssmith512

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Indianapolis, IN USA

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simply put, the problem is the Government is not making these Car manufacturers do the right thing
You realize these car manufactures make cars FOR the Govt? So I guess the Govt is just as guilty as everyone else, including the big bad car companies, right? What's the Govt moto?...."Do as I say, not as I do."

If the car companies werent "doing the right thing" then I guess the Govt should have started their own car company, and built super duper highly efficient cars that they could use (because it is the right thing to do). It would have been a win win win. Tree huggers would be happy, Unions would be happy, 40 billion jobs would have been created, no more dependence on foreign oil, OH MY GOD IT WOULD BE UTOPIA!!!!

Oh wait, that's right, the 50MPG carb is a BIG FAT MYTH. Fuel delivery has very little to do with the fuel economy formula.

Steve

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06-10-2012 05:39 PM  5 years agoPost 14
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Gasoline has about 36KWh of energy per gallon
. . . that's $3.60 per gallon electrical equalivent using 10 cents per KWh

Knowing that the typical car gasoline engine is only about 33% efficient . . .
. . . that's $10.80 per gallon equalivent for mechanical energy obtained.
Efficiency is about the most useless measure to use in an argument to reason why people aren't driving electric cars everywhere.

Of course the electricity comes out of thin air to recharge your electric car. And that source of electricity to recharge your car is endless and everywhere. Especially when environmentalists are working their hardest to limit or eliminate coal mining, drilling for natural gas, building nuclear power stations, expanding existing power stations, and upgrading the power grid. Many large metropolitan areas are already experiencing rolling brownouts and blackouts due to the limited ability to supply power during "peak hours" in the summer. Imagine how much worse that situation would be if everyone needed to also charge their cars on a regular basis, and often.

Replacement and disposal of defective or dead batteries is never a problem. There is no environmental impact in doing so.

You can drive up to 400 miles at 70 mph on a single charge, including rugged terrain and stop and go traffic.

In the winter, the same electricity that is going to power your car will also heat you when it's -35 degrees F without cutting into your ability to reach your destination.

It will also power your lights and electrics at night without substantially affecting your ability to get to your destination.

It will run your air conditioning in the summer without substantially affecting your mileage.

When your battery is discharged, you can pull into any of a number of recharging stations and fill it up in less than 5 minutes and be on your way again.
the Government is not making these Car manufacturers do the right thing
Really? CAFE standards that are increasingly more difficult to achieve. The number of regulations aimed directly at the manufacture, sales, and operation of vehicles is huge. Is it the Government's job to force a manufacturer to produce a technology that is neither practical or affordable or desired by the consumer? If the market place really demanded the technology, it would be there in droves from various manufacturers. And who says the Government KNOWS what is "the right way"? When Government gets involved in anything, it gets less efficient, less affordable, and more mediocre. Government has been involved in Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, all sorts of things. How many of those actually WORK well, efficiently, and at reasonable cost? How many of those endeavors are financially sound and not bankrupt? How many are not wrought with corruption?

Government is NOT the answer for most things.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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06-10-2012 05:48 PM  5 years agoPost 15
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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When your battery is discharged, you can pull into any of a number of recharging stations and fill it up in less than 5 minutes and be on your way again.
? ? ? . . . I don't think so . . .

Let's see . . .
240KWh in 5 minutes is 2.88 MegaWatts for 5 minutes
2.88 Mega Watts at 240 Volts is 12,000 amps

I wonder what gage wire is needed for 12,000 amps ?

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06-10-2012 05:51 PM  5 years agoPost 16
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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In the winter, the same electricity that is going to power your car will also heat you when it's -35 degrees F without cutting into your ability to reach your destination.
Probably install kerosine heaters as an option.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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06-10-2012 06:54 PM  5 years agoPost 17
jcrack_corn

rrVeteran

End of Time

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? ? ? . . . I don't think so . . .

Let's see . . .
240KWh in 5 minutes is 2.88 MegaWatts for 5 minutes
2.88 Mega Watts at 240 Volts is 12,000 amps

I wonder what gage wire is needed for 12,000 amps ?
although i agree, it is also very much possible. on a 50 year time horizon the small neighboorhood nukes (which are in existence today, about the size of a shipping container) would make 2.88MW over 5 minutes pretty easy.....drive up to your neighboorhood nuke to charge up.

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06-10-2012 06:58 PM  5 years agoPost 18
tzclark

rrNovice

Chilliwack British Columbia

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It would be approx 8 2000kcm per phase. So 16 free air cables each the thickness of a coke can, plus whatever the bonding would be. You'd need a crane to plug your car in.

We have so far to go before batteries replace fossil fuels. I imagine that you'd still need coolant to cool the batteries and electronics but air conditioning would be a power whore. Battery cars as of now are for hipsters and the rich. As for now I think making hybrids more cost effective is the best way to cut down on emissions.

I also think nuclear power is our only option for moving forward, hydro just cant produce what we are going to require for the future. New construction in some of the communities they require provisions for a 30a 240v charger. That increases your typical service size to a 150a. Imagine at 5 o'clock when everyone gets home and plugs in a 30a load and starts dinner. We will be contributing to global warming from all the power lines glowing red hot.

I would rather be in a boat, with a drink on the rocks, then in the drink, with a boat on the rocks!

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06-10-2012 08:05 PM  5 years agoPost 19
shawmcky

rrElite Veteran

Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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I dont think the guy was being serious about a 5 minute charge,do you

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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06-10-2012 08:10 PM  5 years agoPost 20
tzclark

rrNovice

Chilliwack British Columbia

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No, but its a point that we need to reach.

I would rather be in a boat, with a drink on the rocks, then in the drink, with a boat on the rocks!

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