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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › flybarless without flybarless unit..
01-26-2012 04:26 AM  6 years agoPost 1
nytflyer

rrApprentice

Temasek

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Seems like there is an increasing trend in people flying their fbl helis with just their usual tail gyro only. the first one was in japan where they tried with a D3 Turbulence...that was quite some time ago. the other one is the Raptor E720 flybarless with a. TG7000 ...

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01-26-2012 04:27 AM  6 years agoPost 2
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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Yeah, there are some guys who swear by it.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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01-26-2012 05:36 AM  6 years agoPost 3
Oozie

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Burbank, Ca

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check this out!

Watch at YouTube

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01-26-2012 06:20 AM  6 years agoPost 4
nytflyer

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Temasek

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I got the feeling that any helis should work with or without the fbl unit coz even the real ones do fly without any bell/hiller mechanism built into it( i could b wrong!). believe this has something to do with the headspeed..main blade type could play a big role in how well it performs. gonna try fly my cgy750 in rate mode...should be similar to flying without any assist from the 3axis gyro...

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01-26-2012 06:27 AM  6 years agoPost 5
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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Hey that was really good! Do you have experience with Flybarless stabilization systems? If yes, how does this compare?

_Sam B_

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01-26-2012 06:38 AM  6 years agoPost 6
brian94066

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San Bruno, California

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it'll roll alot faster than it'll flip, and you get alot more pitch tendencies in forward/backward flights

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01-26-2012 07:29 AM  6 years agoPost 7
GetToDaChopper

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Las Vegas , NV

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nobar has been around for a while.......

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01-26-2012 03:25 PM  6 years agoPost 8
nytflyer

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Temasek

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I wonder if nobar works with multiple blades...

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01-26-2012 03:37 PM  6 years agoPost 9
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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gonna try fly my cgy750 in rate mode...should be similar to flying without any assist from the 3axis gyro...
I did this when evaluating my CGY 750 on my two trex 700's (one electric the other nitro). In fact, it didn't hold much better in AVCS mode than it did in rate mode (which is why it's been replaced by a BeastX), so I actually flew it more in rate mode doing the trim flights than I ever did in AVCS (But that's another story already covered in another thread).

So NOBAR (or at least rate mode) is not bad, but the main problems are perturbations from the relative wind. Mine drifted to the left pretty hard with a head or tailwind. With a headwind, the rotor disk pitched up and with a tail wind it pitched down.

But I think if you could get used to that, it's really not that bad. It helped that my headspeeds are around 1600 rpm on both machines and I run FAI blades. That helps with the stability.

So I'd say it's quite doable, you'll just have to do a lot of compensating with a relative wind going through the rotor disk (and definitely only trim with zero wind)

LS

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01-26-2012 04:09 PM  6 years agoPost 10
GetToDaChopper

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Las Vegas , NV

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gonna try fly my cgy750 in rate mode...should be similar to flying without any assist from the 3axis gyro...
i'm sure it's doable but why would you want to unless your just looking for a challenge but i wouldn't say thats no assist from the 3axis gyro as it would still be stabilizing the heli rate mode.

stabilizing in rate mode is still stabilizing.....

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01-26-2012 05:41 PM  6 years agoPost 11
Charlie R

rrApprentice

Lafayette Ca

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Flybarless Rotor Head ... do you remember
There were a few manufactures attempt to have fly-bar-less rotor system in the 70s... but it was not a real standard equipment offering. Kind of as an option. Kavan has it for their Lockheed and Jet Ranger as they call it rigid rotor system. American Helicopter has an option for their Revolution 60..Graupner Bell 212 has an option to remove the flybar and it never did works right either and keep chopping the tail boom.

The real one that works is the one from Horizon Helicopter call the Horizon 60, it is early 80s. That machine has no tail rotor gear box... just a large bend of the speedo cable to drive the tail. Uses many airplane type parts. It flys.. is a hand full..

GMP comes much later, in the early 90s..

Helicopters are a mass of rotating metal fatigue surrounding an oil leak !

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01-26-2012 08:54 PM  6 years agoPost 12
Agilefalcon

rrKey Veteran

Fort Worth, Texas

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I flew a GMP Legend with flybarless head for years!
All this with JR 4131 servos on cyclic.
I learned inverted autos, flips and many other early 3D maneuvers with it. Oh, and that was with a mechanical JR120BB gyro and P mixes.

It flew differently, and was quite stable with the right blades (620mm Rotorsports from Miniature Aircraft).

Chris Berardi
Team BobbyJack's Hobbies

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01-27-2012 06:31 AM  6 years agoPost 13
WIRLYBIRD

rrVeteran

CAPE TOWN / SOUTH AFRICA.

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I flew the Kobi Kiko gas Hughes , and Robinson both were ordered flybar-less , had to get used to it but flew reasonbly well , but seem to remember that the blades were weighted differently.
Dave.

WHAT GOES UP MUST SURELY COME DOWN.

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01-27-2012 06:32 AM  6 years agoPost 14
3DMARK

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Los Angeles, CA - USA

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The Protos didn't have any pitch tendencies, but it was sensitive to cyclic inputs. Tried it with a Trex 500, and it pitched up, and down
like crazy, but it didn't have SAB's installed on it like the Protos
did the video. Blades on the Trex 500 were not even close to the
quality of SAB's. I'm pretty certain that blade selection plays a
major role in how well it will perform without stabilization!

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01-28-2012 10:11 AM  6 years agoPost 15
theriddick45

rrVeteran

United States

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Yes if you want to fly without stab unit your blades should be FAI/F3C type where the weight is towards the tip and not center like 3D blades. I did that for about a year 1/2. It different and to correct more the pitching behavior try to put more weight on the nose of the Heli think like an arrow.

Hope this help!!

Suzi Janis 800e & 700e 3blade both w/Ikon

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01-28-2012 12:17 PM  6 years agoPost 16
abwomack

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Houston, TX - U.S.

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Pretty impressive video
.....

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01-28-2012 07:47 PM  6 years agoPost 17
GetToDaChopper

rrElite Veteran

Las Vegas , NV

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hummm does that make the heli's gyro in the video an "H-Bar" gyro, you know Head-Bar, the guys head who is flying it ??? lol

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01-28-2012 10:09 PM  6 years agoPost 18
MXRACERX43

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Hazleton,PA USA

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Although it was done for many years before.My friend and good flying buddy HeliCuzz is the person responsible for coining the term "NOBAR", and I also belive responsible for others experimenting with it in 3-D flight situations.

NOBAR is just one of his more recognized acronyms. He has come up with some other funny heli related names

He has since swithced to a CGY which he refers to as "powersteering" I am gonna link this thread to him so he can leave his input.

Team Miniature Aircraft~Team GensAce

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01-28-2012 11:07 PM  6 years agoPost 19
heli-cuzz

rrElite Veteran

Pittston, Pa. USA

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Yeah, there are some guys who swear by it.
I never swore by it but I swore I'd never own a flybarred helicopter after the first few NOBAR flights.
Although it was done for many years before.My friend and good flying buddy HeliCuzz is the person responsible for coining the term "NOBAR", and I also belive responsible for others experimenting with it in 3-D flight situations.

NOBAR is just one of his more recognized acronyms. He has come up with some other funny heli related names

He has since swithced to a CGY which he refers to as "powersteering" I am gonna link this thread to him so he can leave his input.
Thanks for giving me credit where its due. LoL
NOBAR was my pun towards Vbar.
The name says it all. no flybar no vbar = NOBAR
And yes... A 3 axis gyro is a powersteering unit for a heli.

I've flown the 450, 50, and 90 sized NOBAR helis for a few years. I had a lot of fun flying that style but since the birth of the CGY750.... NOBAR is no more.
It does take a few flights to get use to it. With the right blade choice and a proper simple set-up a 50 or 90 sized NOBAR heli will fly great. I believe it can make an individual a better pilot in the long run. Although its definitely intended for a pilot with flying experience. Its not for the faint hearted that's for sure.
I did this when evaluating my CGY 750 on my two trex 700's (one electric the other nitro). In fact, it didn't hold much better in AVCS mode than it did in rate mode (which is why it's been replaced by a BeastX), so I actually flew it more in rate mode doing the trim flights than I ever did in AVCS (But that's another story already covered in another thread).

So NOBAR (or at least rate mode) is not bad, but the main problems are perturbations from the relative wind. Mine drifted to the left pretty hard with a head or tailwind. With a headwind, the rotor disk pitched up and with a tail wind it pitched down.
Rate mode is not NOBAR!
Take the 3 axis gyro off and put a single axis for the tail only and that's NOBAR.
Rate mode the gyro is still in operation. Same with a tail gyro in rate mode. It'll pull one way or the other but if you didn't have a gyro on the tail you'd be fighting the tail all over the place with rudder inputs.
The tail is much harder to manage than the rotor disc is in a gyro free application.

Here's a couple of old videos of me having fun with my 50 and 90 nitro NOBAR helis.

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

Fury 55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90

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01-31-2012 12:17 AM  6 years agoPost 20
JasonJ

rrKey Veteran

North Idaho

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I have an old Art-tech Falcon 400 3D that I bought in 07. I got bored a few years ago and dusted it off and NOBAR'd it. It actually was not that bad to fly. I "weighted" the blade tips with some electrical tape and rebalanced them. I only flew it that one day. I think it was the 09/10 winter. It still sits on the shelf to this day waiting for me to get bored and do something stupid to it.

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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › flybarless without flybarless unit..
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