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HelicopterOff Topics › UK Prices Shameful...
12-18-2003 06:57 PM  13 years agoPost 461
G.Man

rrProfessor

Bristol

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Janek is indeed spot on when he says about import tax and vat...

we will always pay 17.5% vat on the goods...

however, it is based on the base cost of the goods (+shipping and import tax) which is invariably a lot lower than the UK trade price (including shipping and import tax...)

Janek is also a top geezer, and as he says can jump to the defence of anyone he chooses

Please guys stop picking on each others opinions, we are all entitled to them be they correct or not... I know many UK distributors are crapping themselves about this thread...

That and many other comments on RR...

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12-18-2003 08:02 PM  13 years agoPost 462
nickwap

rrVeteran

Berwick-upon-Tweed, Northumberland, England

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OK this time for my 2p (2cents to our American friends)
What the UK trade has to realize, and deal with, is the fact that they are now trading in a Global Market. With the growth of the Internet is now easier to buy from abroad that it is in the UK in a lot of cases. What the cyber shops have done is seen an opportunity and gone for it. The issue of taxes is not the real issue here it is the fact that we have 'importers' putting on their marginsand costs, then the LHS doing the same.
The distribution network is at fault.
The message that we need to send to the importers is that they are loosing sales because the price is too high. We need to cut one link out of the chain. Unfortunately this is going to be the LHS as we know it.
What we will see IMHO is the importers selling direct to the end user and the LHS dealing with the aftermarket and spares. I may be wrong but hasn't this already happened with X Cell in the UK?
Lets face it, the most (not all) LHS have a crap range of Heli stuff, you cant even buy the fuel that you want at many of them.
The message we need to send to the importers is 'sell direct and keep in business or keep on what you're doing and become extinct'
An earlier post calculated 1,672 UK pilots, if each of those pilots bought their kits and radio gear and engines from cyber sellers and spent say £500 a year on their hobby,(Only £500, I wish!) that would equate to £836,000 in lost sales, now if I were in the hobby importer business I would take note.

This is a similar situation, albeit on a smaller scale to the UK motor industry and imports. First they bleated and squealed then they dealt with it and prices have fallen.

Letters and emails will make the importers aware that we are serious.

I am waiting for a delivery of my Xmas present from a cyber seller and the service that I have received so far is in excess of most of the UK shops that I have dealt with over the past 20 years of modelling. I will NEVER buy from a UK shop, if I can get what I want, when I want it, cheeper from a cyber seller.

The LHS and the Importers have to react to the cyber challenge and win back the business that they once had, instead of spitting the dummy out of the cot, stamping their feet and saying 'It's not fair'
The gravy train has come to a halt.

Nick

"Give me another one, this one's broke!"

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12-18-2003 09:15 PM  13 years agoPost 463
Clearance

rrVeteran

Rain Forest of Western Canada

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Gentlemen,

After being in the hobby for two decades I can appreciate your situation.

A word of caution: Distributors want to maintain the status quo. Their immediate response is to shut down the grey market by complaining to the manufacturers. They could convince the manufacturers to put a quota on the grey market's supply, or limit the number of popular items supplied, or somehow tell them not to ship to certain countries.

A few dealers in Canada have tried to be "competitive"; no one has been successful. Prices are fixed.

Be careful where you tread.

Ken

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12-18-2003 09:39 PM  13 years agoPost 464
drivingmemad

rrApprentice

England ... North West

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Hello again ..
please read my last post on previous page

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12-18-2003 09:46 PM  13 years agoPost 465
BigChopper

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Cambridge, UK

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Clearance,

My sentiments exactly!

Andy

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12-18-2003 10:28 PM  13 years agoPost 466
G.Man

rrProfessor

Bristol

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Clearance

the manufacturers are already trying...

the thing is the cyber sellers dont care, and carry on regardless...

they just deny on their websites that they will sell outside their country...

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12-19-2003 01:58 AM  13 years agoPost 467
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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I got my C spec engines from John at http://www.heli-kraft.com/ in Taiwan took 36 hours to get to me and what a saving well worth it

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12-19-2003 12:33 PM  13 years agoPost 468
RotorX

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London

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Living in the UK and buying from Hong Kong

Please bear in mind that all postal packages arriving in the UK from outside the EC are examined by Customs Officers who determine whether import duty and VAT are payable.

Most goods arriving in the UK from outside the EC are liable to any or all these charges: Customs Duty, Excise Duty (alcohol, tobacco etc.) and VAT. These must be paid whether:

- you purchase the goods or receive them as a gift
- the goods are new or used
- the goods are for your own private use or for sale
EC agreements allow relief from charges on certain imported goods if they:
- have an intrinsic value of £18 or less, although this particular relief does not
include alcohol, tobacco, etc.
- are gifts worth £36 or less
Charges
- Customs (Import) Duty is charged as a percentage of the value of the goods plus their postage and packing costs. This percentage can vary depending on the type of goods and the country of origin. Generally it is between 3.5% and 5%
- Excise Duty is charged on alcohol and tobacco
- Import VAT is charged at the same rate that applies to similar goods sold in this country. The value of the goods for import VAT is based in the value for Customs Duty plus any duty charged.
The Post Office may also charge for clearing a package through Customs. They, if required, open and re-pack the package for Customs Officers.

All the above charges are collected by the Post Office on delivery.

The above information is a brief summary of the HM Customs & Excise guide for international post users

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12-19-2003 02:31 PM  13 years agoPost 469
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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I have not had anything stopped yet and have worked it out that if I did and had to pay the VAT and the import duty it still works out cheaper than buying it from Rip of Britain. The last 2 engines I saved over £100 per engine.

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12-19-2003 02:45 PM  13 years agoPost 470
RotorX

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London

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Kaz,

The identity of the members from other members will be secured 100%.

With regards to the Data Protection Act this will not protect any member, I work for a major high street bank and we are bound by law too disclose any illegal transactions or possible suspicious banking activities under the Anti-terrorist & Money Laundering Acts. The data protection act is totally null when avoiding tax is concerned and knowledge of such acts is equally an illegal offence.

We have a dept specialising in tax and vat, my contact states and he's an ex Customs and Excise man that the import duty due will only be charged if the items are liable for import duty. This is determined by a massive telephone directory sized book that lists every know product that is liable for duty if listed then the item will be due a % from 0 to upto 16%.

The assumtpion is that every item is:-

a) Correctly declared as mechandise
b) That the correct value was given for the goods
c) Would could if needed leave out the tax amount and just assume that all good either are charged at a fixed rate
d) Stick the actual purchase price and let the others make their own assumptions as to whether import duty was due.
e) Have a simple Yes/No on the assumption that goods are correctly described was tax due. (Atleast that would let members have and idea of what is taxable and what is not)

If duty was due then before that post office would release the goods you would have to pay the duty and by default you couldn't list the goods on the site if you didn't pay what was required.

It must be noted that my contact states that the recipient of the goods would not be charged for tax evasion for any mis-discribed goods, if duty was due you pay it, if not then the goods would be destroyed after a fixed period.

Bare in mind that the only information I hold is a username and e-mail address, postal address are not held so any investigation would move straight onto the ISP.

Apologies for wittering on, I hope this helps.

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12-19-2003 02:51 PM  13 years agoPost 471
RotorX

rrKey Veteran

London

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Just in case anyone missed it - here it is again.............

It must be noted that my contact states that the recipient of the goods would not be charged for tax evasion for any mis-discribed goods, if duty was due you pay it, if not then the goods would be destroyed after a fixed period.

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12-19-2003 03:26 PM  13 years agoPost 472
truespin

rrApprentice

Surrey, UK

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Iiinteresting
What I want to know is why do we sometimes pay the taxes and sometimes not? The customs declaration is the same so why isn't the taxing consistant?

/truespin

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12-19-2003 03:42 PM  13 years agoPost 473
RotorX

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London

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volume mate, also they would be more interested in going for the higher value parcels - those that get let thru, get let thru, they are all subject to the same procedure

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12-19-2003 06:11 PM  13 years agoPost 474
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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Well I don't know how big you have to be but I have seen some gear for sale in the UK at non UK prices shall we say and they have been selling more than one off's as I nearly got one of my engines from one guy.
Your contact is going to be busy as I also know that 36 FF9's went to the UK in one week there must be so many of us buying from the web now. I am one off these poor peaple that smoke as well so I go to France to buy it is cheaper even with the boat fare.
They will make us pay tax on air next just to pay there wages.

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12-19-2003 07:11 PM  13 years agoPost 475
drivingmemad

rrApprentice

England ... North West

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Gordon ..

The distributers already do that calculated on the amount of it you want to displace with rotors ... see ... they think of everything!!!

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12-19-2003 07:56 PM  13 years agoPost 476
gordon

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Isle of Wight UK

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well as Janek Knows I had a few run in's with Irvine's (for you guys that live out of the UK OS importers) Janek got me the e mail AD of OS Japan cut a long story short I ended up with a new engine and a spare piston&liner kit for the first engine that Irvine's would not sort out. So why should I pay extra for that service when OS Japan will give me a top rate service for less. So Irvine's have just lost out on the sale of 2 new C spec OS 91 engines . Plus I buy about 5 or 6 OS 50 SXH engines a year so who is the looser.

This month I have spent about £300 and saved my self about the same £300 just by buying on the web and I still get the items in 36 hours . Import duty and VAT does not add up to that and there is only a few places I can think of that can match that service.

I would also like to say I have never paid any import duty.

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12-19-2003 10:43 PM  13 years agoPost 477
SAL

rrVeteran

Oakville, Ontario, Canada

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Great work boys......

I must commend both RotorX and Mark Cristy for taking a extra step here and getting the facts about the situation instead of talking outta there backsides.

One of the great things about RR is being able to communicate, and discuss a situation. Hell even if the distriburators don't take notice and nothing happens to the UK pricing, at least everyone here knows where they stand............

Remind me to buy both of you guys a drink at the next 3DM, damn even Gailfrey can have one, only if he predicts me the winner, as he was right about Johnboy!!!!!

Keep up the good work!!!!!

.

[color=red]SAL[/color]

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12-19-2003 11:09 PM  13 years agoPost 478
G.Man

rrProfessor

Bristol

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Sal

be honest I predicted all 3 winners...

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12-19-2003 11:30 PM  13 years agoPost 479
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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when thinking about it I know the model market is a lot smaller but did we not have this sort of problem a few years ago about grey bikes and cars . Now look what has come about the UK have had to drop there prices to match other's. I can remember the bikes as I had a import and the uk bike dealers started saying that the import bikes and car's where not road legale and a danger . Yet you look at import cars they have all the extras on them as standard. I know my ZX9 was no different to the UK bike. I wonder if model gear and other things will come that way in the end there is a store that have add's on the telly selling imported goods at pre import prices.We are just to soft in this country like we have a toll road funded by the govenment back door so why do we pay road tax? Can some one in the USA tell us how much they pay for there petrol at the moment.
Look at your wage packet and tell me how many times do you get taxed on the money you get income tax your stamp VAT tax on petrol to get to work. I went into a Wallmart super market in the USA Wrangler jeans £4 Deny's (like a good cafe) T bone steak on one plate and your fry's and all on another plate all the coffee you could drink £5 . So why do we pay so much.

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12-20-2003 06:18 PM  13 years agoPost 480
heligoole

rrKey Veteran

yorkshire,uk

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SO ARE UK WAGES

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HelicopterOff Topics › UK Prices Shameful...
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