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› VIBE50 E CONVERSION
12-16-2011 10:13 PM  5 years agoPost 1
Hooch

rrApprentice

Auckland, New Zealand

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Sorry guys for the late show on this E conversion that I have done to two of my Vibe50's. I have teased with a few photos but quite a few of you are keen to gain my insight into how I did this.

In summary I have converted 2 Vibe50's. One is now a Vibe90E used for F3C/FAI type flying, and the other is still a 50 but is fitted for now with a Compass 6HV head and Beastx. Intention was to always run them as 12's hence the choice of engines!

Choice of engine: Due to the gearing ratio been limited to a main gear of 87 (if you stick with the original plastic main)a 450KV engine is the most suitable. However the original plastic main gear won't handle the power/torque and I quickly stripped a main out.

Main Gear: After researching everywhere I found a new much stronger and deeper main gear. JRP960504 CNC 84T (out of the old Vibe90N I believe) Now that reduced the ratio even more, but I'm using a Scorpion 10 pinion (they come in 10,11,12). I needed to do all this for the 90E as I wanted to get the head speed down to approx 1600 for the hovering, and then 2000ish for the upper air. So the ratio is 8.4. You are also limited to the main gear dia due to the tail drive assmebly.

Now with the 90E I wanted to run 5000mah batts but the first HK4035-530 is a little too deep to fit the bigger batts under it. (you might see that eng in some earlier photos) However the HK5020-450 is shorter hence more room. The HK111 4035-450 is in the Vibe50E thou as it will fit 2x3300 up to 4000mah batts perfectly. Make sure you get the long shaft versions so you can mount a top beariing support.

Eng Mount: Trex700E eng mount. HK111 4035 and 5020 are 30mm bolt spacings so accept those engines well. Check, I think the older HK engines some are only 25mm spacing. If this is the case Scorp make there own 61mm wide eng mount.

Top eng support is standard main shaft bearing support with a bearing with 6mm ID to hold Scorp eng shaft. can be adjusted back and forth in the same frame holes as the start shaft assembly on the Nitro.

End of Step one.

LOGO700
LOGO600sx
TREX 500 FBL

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12-16-2011 10:22 PM  5 years agoPost 2
Hooch

rrApprentice

Auckland, New Zealand

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Engine Mount Frames and spacers:

Get yourself one TREX700N bottom frame. This is a solid piece of Carbon and brilliantly is easily cut/dremmeled to make up the eng frame supports.

Opppssss..... Thats one thing I should of mentioned at the start. Get yourself a Dremmel, if you havn't got one already. AND if you don't like the idea of cutting your main frames apart..... stop reading now and give up on the project!!!!!

Merry xmas.

LOGO700
LOGO600sx
TREX 500 FBL

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12-16-2011 11:05 PM  5 years agoPost 3
Hooch

rrApprentice

Auckland, New Zealand

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Eng Support:

Cut 2 pieces off 700N frame as in first photo above. Then shape them as per second picture. However the piece on the second photo is for the right side. It is cut out on the left end to allow you to slide the main gear in/out without having to remove the frame. The front is shaped to allow you to remove the tail servo without removing the side frame again! Not necessary for the servo really, unless you are into chaging them alot!! The piece on the other side dosn't need the shapeing at the front/back.

The most right bolt hole is the original hole from the trex700 frame. Use it as a start to line up all the other holes. The extended holes on the piece in the right photo are to allow you to adjust the gear mesh by sliding the eng mount back/forth.

Frame spacers:

In right photo Hirobo 12mm spacers that accept a 3mm bolt right thru. Sorry, can't find the packet for the part number. My first build I just cut some alu tubing to the right length, worked fine but Hirobo parts look more professional. You need eight of these spacers and obviously longer bolts to accept the xtra frame piece plus 12 mm of spacer. Think I used 26mm bolts.

LOGO700
LOGO600sx
TREX 500 FBL

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12-16-2011 11:46 PM  5 years agoPost 4
Hooch

rrApprentice

Auckland, New Zealand

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SCARY BIT:

Obviously you have stripped both frames down and join them together to make it all easier and more accurate.

You can see my markings on the frame before I have cut them.

REASONS:

On left side and top more space required to fit larger Main gear. On right side have taken 2-3mm off to allow the Eng Mount to be moved fwd to allow for adjustment depending on what size pinion you want to run. See one of the photos on the first post and you will see what I mean.

EDIT: When you bolt the two frames together use the landing gear mounts as well. This shows you what to cut around on the bottom rear frame. You can see that you leave those gear/bottom plate mounts on ONLY cutting the frame in front of the rear gear/plate mount.

LOGO700
LOGO600sx
TREX 500 FBL

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12-17-2011 12:15 AM  5 years agoPost 5
Hooch

rrApprentice

Auckland, New Zealand

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MAIN GEAR:

Due to deeper main gear you need to lift it up off the tail drive gear approx 2mm. I used as spacers the spacers that went between the main frames and the aileron bellcranks, however any small washer/spacer built up to 2mm will work.

You can see in the second photo above how this all helped in the clearance, and places the main gear in a better vertical position on the pinion.

LOGO700
LOGO600sx
TREX 500 FBL

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12-17-2011 12:37 AM  5 years agoPost 6
Hooch

rrApprentice

Auckland, New Zealand

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Rigidity:

The frame/eng mount area is rock solid with obviously alot more support from the stacked eng mount.

However the rear of the frame isn't as frim now that the original Nitro eng mount etc has ben removed.

So as you can see from the photos a set of the side frames of the front Electronic shelf work perfectly to strengthen up the rear of the frames. Add in some more original frame alu tubing braces as required and this frame is stiff as! Obviously you could use any piece of carbon to make up a brace.

I also added a 10mmx2mm beam along/on top of each side of the bottom plate to stiffen up the bottom plate to hold the batts better.

The above photos show how I mounted the ESC for my 90E by using the rest of the TREX700 bottom plate. Initially I had it inside the frames as per the photo but then due to possible CC fireworks decided to shift it to the outside for better cooling etc. This all adds to making the rear frame very stiff.

You can see on the last photo above of the 90E how I initially left part of the down frame on by the engine. My thoughts there were to stop the batts coming up to touch the eng, but with the 5020 eng there is a larger enough gap, and I have since removed these pieces, which has tidied it all up and made it easier to put batts in place.

LOGO700
LOGO600sx
TREX 500 FBL

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12-17-2011 12:57 AM  5 years agoPost 7
Hooch

rrApprentice

Auckland, New Zealand

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I'll post more later, showing the minor differences between the 50 and 90 layouts, however these are not significant in any way to the conversion that you have seen so far. Both helis, 50 and 90 are exactly the same up until this point of the conversion. The rest is more subjective to either been a heavy (I wanted that) F3C machine or a very light FBL 50 machine.

See below:

By the way see how there is not alot of clearance with the 5000mah batt under the HK111 4035-450! but heaps of room with any smaller batt or if using the shorter HK5020-450.

LOGO700
LOGO600sx
TREX 500 FBL

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12-19-2011 03:16 AM  5 years agoPost 8
Clearance

rrVeteran

Rain Forest of Western Canada

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Having a considerable number of Vibe 50s plus parts, eventually I would seriously consider one or more conversions.

Please continue with the conversion and tell us more of the ultimate, final refit with directions as to where to obtain the parts and costs.

Thank you,

Ken

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12-19-2011 06:44 PM  5 years agoPost 9
angelob

rrKey Veteran

Stoughton WI

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What tailboom/torque tube did you use to stretch the tail? We have a long winter ahead and this will keep me busy...

Thanks,
Angelo

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12-19-2011 10:54 PM  5 years agoPost 10
Hooch

rrApprentice

Auckland, New Zealand

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Will continue with more details shortly. In answer to a couple of questions. The torque tube and boom is (don't tell anyone!) a TREX700 set. Only mod is to cut a small section out of the boom where it goes into the heli. Just match the vibe boom, it is to stop it from rotateing. TT fits perfect, splines are the same and vibe tail is original. I also used trex700 boom support rods.

LOGO700
LOGO600sx
TREX 500 FBL

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12-21-2011 11:13 PM  5 years agoPost 11
versant

rrApprentice

SoCal

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Hooch,

For the vibe50E that you convert do you still need to change the main gear?

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12-22-2011 01:28 AM  5 years agoPost 12
Hooch

rrApprentice

Auckland, New Zealand

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hooch,
For the vibe50E that you convert do you still need to change the main gear?
[quote]

No. You don't have too but...... I stripped out the original plastic main gear after only about 3 flights, as a 50 size heli only spinning 600 blades!

However also keep in mind that this power system is definitely an overkill if you keep it as a 50. My intention was to use 700 size power system because if this conversion was not successful I was probably going to build a stock elect 90 size model. Ie maybe an align 700e and if it was successful I wanted to have the option to stretch it to a 90.

The above mentioned white CNC main gear has had a trashing as a 50 size 3D model and also as a 90 size F3C model spinning FAI CY710's. It is still as good as new. By the way it is alot quiter than the original plastic gear.

So maybe you might get away with the original gear if you run 600 size elect system, and only keep it as a 50 size heli, and monitor your amount of pitch, and engine gov gain.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Hooch

LOGO700
LOGO600sx
TREX 500 FBL

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12-22-2011 06:21 PM  5 years agoPost 13
versant

rrApprentice

SoCal

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Hooch,

I wanted to keep my Vibe as a 50 size eheli. I checked the vibe nex8 specs and it recommends a HKIII 4035-500KV which is also a 700 size power system and a gear ratio of 8.7:1.

Any idea if it would it be Ok to use the JR 84 tooth main gear that you use(To prevent stripping) on an HKIII-4035-500KV or the motor that you use and yet maintain it as a 50 size eheli.

I am not familiar with gear ratio's...

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12-22-2011 06:58 PM  5 years agoPost 14
angelob

rrKey Veteran

Stoughton WI

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I had a similar question as versant - I'm assuming you are flying the 50 with 600-620mm blades but the powerplant is spec'd for a 700 size heli. My assumption is that you are governing the headspeed down to whatever you choose because if its able to swing 700 blades at 2200rpm itll rip the head off with 600 blades. What does that do to the efficiency? Do you just get longer flight times? The electric stuff is new to me but I'm trying to figure it out. My goal would be to keept it as a 50 size heli also.

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12-23-2011 11:48 AM  5 years agoPost 15
Hooch

rrApprentice

Auckland, New Zealand

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Gents, there is lots of info on RR regarding ESC/ENG/RATIO choices but I will talk you thru MY selection choices.

Volts x KV / Ratio x .85 =Headspeed.

Volts= 44.4V for 12's. Batts start higher than this as you know but by the end of the flight Volts are back towards 44.4. I have confirmed this using the CC datalogger.

Ratio= Maingear/Pinion

.85 is an estimate for loss of efficiency thru ESC and Eng. Very conservative and this figure is open to debate.

V x KV/Ratio x .85=HS.

Ratio using 84 Main gear.
10 pinion = 8.4
11 = 7.636
12 = 7.

So some of my answers.

450KV ENG.
10 = 2021
11 = 2224
12 = 2426

So if you are going to Gov these headspeeds you need some overhead.
Now on my 90E conversion I wanted a hover speed as low as 1550 (so used 10 pinion to get lower HS)and an idle up of up to 2000. I needed to compromise. After a lot of flying I am hovering at 1675 and upper air is at 1975. I'm using the 10 pinion and according to the CC ESC reports and logs all is very sweet. Only right towards the end of the flight does the ESC occasionly go to 100% pwr output as the batt volts drop off towards that 44.4 volts and I pull full pitch on a big up line into the vertical. By the way it goes like a cut cat.

Now on the 50, I have only done a couple of flights recently but even still with the 10 pinion the ESC was happy to govern up to 2150 thru a full flight. Remember it is only spinning Radix625 blades so alot easier than the big heavy F3C 710 blades on the 90 and this formula is conservative.

So using the HKIII 4035-500KV and 8.7 ratio as in the Vibe Nex8 and you get 2169 HS, which is still great and with the 8.4 ratio you get 2246. Once again I think that would be fine. You could easily govern your 50 size heli to a 2100-2200ish headspeed and it would also happily run at 1900ish. Go back up to my 450KV numbers and you will see an 11 pinion works fairly much the same numbers.

By getting a 500 or 520KV eng gives you the flexibilty to run the system only on 10cells as well if you want.

Do the numbers.

Hope I havn't confused anybody, and I'm sure somebody will pipe in about doing it another way but....... this is what I did.

Regards,

Callum

LOGO700
LOGO600sx
TREX 500 FBL

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12-23-2011 04:06 PM  5 years agoPost 16
versant

rrApprentice

SoCal

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Hooch,

Thank you very much for your effort to explain everything. I will try electric soon by converting my Vibe50

Cheers!

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12-23-2011 09:42 PM  5 years agoPost 17
carbon99

rrNovice

QLD,Australia

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vibe 50

Yes Thanks Hooch,

It was your very first post re the conversion that got me thinking of changing mine.....
I am going to do mine in 8S....and I am getting bits and pieces at the moment...
Doing the mounting a bit differently...but have taken some of your ideas and used them

cheers

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09-19-2012 09:22 PM  5 years agoPost 18
coolgabsi

rrApprentice

Plano TX

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one and only question... how much mone approximately into this. Forget time..

I have a vibe 50..nitro.. and almost a full frame of a vibe 50 minus the clutch and starter assembly.. but hey, i dont need that with this.

Just wanna ask how much did you drop in this conversion.. wondering if i should get a nex8 or go with this conversion. LOVE the VIBE 50 BTW still!

People call me crash master... for a reason.. :P :D

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09-23-2012 04:24 AM  5 years agoPost 19
Hooch

rrApprentice

Auckland, New Zealand

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The conversion itself is quite cheap, disreagrading the choice of ESC and Engine. The heli is getting a major trimming rather than gaining alot of parts!!

I will have another look at my conversion and come up with anything new including more photos.

The vibe50E is now running Kont 80HV ESC and HKIII 4035-450. Im loving this heli, it is my weapon of choice. Reliabilty has been spot on with no major issues.

Regards,

Callum.

LOGO700
LOGO600sx
TREX 500 FBL

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11-16-2012 04:07 PM  4 years agoPost 20
daved26

rrApprentice

NJ USA

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PINION

Did you use a MOD 1 pinion?

Dave

"I wish my 9C had a reset button"

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