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HelicopterMain Discussion › FBL - underwhelming performance so far...
12-17-2011 10:01 AM  5 years agoPost 21
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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I just and an experience with the beast and it can go from good to bad pretty quick depending on the type of vibration.

The most recent incident was a pretty much brand new 450 that had some vibe problems. The axis that was out of wack was the tail...it did all sorts of goofy things...pretty much unflyable. And yes we tried 2 different beast until I found that the airframe was vibrating bad by holding it with the blades off.

Mechanically the heli needed to be gone through but the vibes + fbl system made for a frustrating situation. It was not obvious by looking at the heli in flight that there was a vibe issue.

This is exactly why my Vario gasser is flybared right now. Until I figure out how to get the gov set well and the engine dialed in I'm not taking the risk...pretty ironic coming from a guy that knows how and has designed these type of stabilization systems.

The part that bothers me the most about all of this is there is very little warning(the kind that comes in big obvious letters at the beginning) in the manuals to make it clear, that you need to get your old-busted-crusty-shaky helicopter working reasonably well first before attempting to use a completely MOTION based system. Marketing people give you as little info as they can about the reality of these systems to give you a false sense of security so you'll buy these things by the hand fulls. Note my comments are exaggerated but I hope you get the point.

Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power

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12-17-2011 04:42 PM  5 years agoPost 22
Wave

rrKey Veteran

Illinois

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Marketing people give you as little info as they can about the reality of these systems to give you a false sense of security so you'll buy these things by the hand fulls. Note my comments are exaggerated but I hope you get the point.
I agree !!

Check out HF..its a regular Beast X love fest over there.

Note: My comments are not exaggerated but you probably will not get the point.

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12-17-2011 05:00 PM  5 years agoPost 23
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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A couple other notes...
- I discovered this am that my beastx still had an old 2.x firmware version in it. I wasn't really having any trouble, but 3.0.8 had a lot of improvements in it. So updated and redid my setup from scratch.

- I also tweaked the mechanics a little bit too, in particular i turned out to have a little negative pitch at center stick. Took 2 turns out on the links to put it at 0. The MB actually thought my mechanics were even further off than before when I did the step of setting 6 degrees of pitch, tho (purple light this time instead of red). But I ignored the color of the light and set it to 6 regardless as instructed in the manual.

So starting from square 1 again, though at least this time I kind of know what to expect (and have my pitch curve setup right this also)...

It'll be interesting to see how it flies with the new FW....

LS

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12-17-2011 05:27 PM  5 years agoPost 24
Jeff polisena

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westpalmbeachflorida​usa

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Keep at it you will get it . Once you get used to setting up and tweaking the next Heli will setup faster

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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12-17-2011 05:55 PM  5 years agoPost 25
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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A couple of things to point out. Replace the FAI dampeners with hard 3D type for FBL use. the FAI are too soft and contribute to a lack of FBL control, especially at spool-up. The heavy FAI blades are OK, just replace the dampeners.

How do you spool-up? The best way to start any electric model, but particularly a FBL setup, is to engage T-hold, put collective stick at near center (approximately 0° pitch, but a bit of positive is better), then flick the T-hold off. The slow spool-up of the ESC will do a nice job of keeping the heli from having too much shaking while the blades are being thrown into balance by centrifugal force.

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12-17-2011 06:32 PM  5 years agoPost 26
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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The problem with the hard dampeners is a bad wobble at lower headspeeds (already tried them), so the softer dampeners are necessary to keep it still at the lower headspeeds I'm running. The heli is fine in the air with the softer ones so far, so I think those are ok.

Noted on the spool up, I'll give that a try. Tho my method (now after practicing the technique yesterday) is to just advance the stick to about midstick quickly which achieves about the same thing.

But using TH I didn't think about so I'll have a go with that also.

One other note in case anyone else might run into this: I'd forgotten to move the balls on the distal end of the ail/pitch bellcranks to the inner hole. I originally set this up as FB so the balls were in the outer holes - align specifies the inner holes for FBL. I redid steps G and J on the beastx with slightly better results. It was almost to the red light in step J at 6 degs.

So one more additional setup tweak that I missed. Hopefully it'll all add up to a good setup in the end (if I don't trash any more blades lol)

LS

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12-17-2011 06:36 PM  5 years agoPost 27
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Keep at it you will get it . Once you get used to setting up and tweaking the next Heli will setup faster
Actually one of the joys of the beastx I'm discovering already is how easy it is to setup. Even after a couple of mechanical goofs and upgrading the firmware, it's a simple job to just go back through the menus.

Really not much worse than my FBs over the years plus a gyro and governor. This is only a little more work really. And of course setting up the head is a lot simpler...

So I really like this unit so far...

LS

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12-17-2011 06:45 PM  5 years agoPost 28
rpat

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Weirton, W. Va.

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uncle
It took me about three months to set up my 3G unit. the tail was my problem. To cut to the chase I went through new TT more bearings in the TT and even opened the gyro up to fill it with goop to try and dumb the thing down some. I finally came across it after looking on here and one guy suggested a certain setting be changed. So what the hey I'll try it, so out comes the computer for about the millionth time and I changed the setting that the guy recommended and it was like I threw a light switch from off to on. every thing smoothed out and I haven't had to go back in and touch a thing since.
Being that you are working on this thing by your self, have patience you will get it.
By the way this was on my trex 600.

trex 700fbl cal30,minititan,, trx600fbl,trex250,logo 500,Velocity N2

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12-17-2011 06:56 PM  5 years agoPost 29
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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To be honest, this has actually been easier than coming back into helis this past summer after 15 years. On that I had to relearn practically everything since a lot of the technology had changed significantly, especially in the radios and with CCPM (we only had mechanical mixing back in the old days and Curtis had only just come out with CCPM in the JR's).

On this, it's not that bad and so far has only cost me the set of blades lol. The beastx really has made this pretty simple. I'd have probably been screwed if I'd tried a Vbar first. I was considering the CGY 750 also, but the lower cost put the beastx over the edge. But the 750 looks like it would have been a breeze also...

LS

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12-17-2011 06:59 PM  5 years agoPost 30
Wave

rrKey Veteran

Illinois

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I was considering the CGY 750 also, but the lower cost put the beastx over the edge.
Gimme a hug.

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12-17-2011 07:04 PM  5 years agoPost 31
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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lol... I should mention that I'm even considering a BX for my nitro if I decided I like FBL after this experiment in the end. I did have my heart set on a 750 for it, but it occurs to me I'd have to toss my GY701, a fair bit of wasted money (or I'd have to sell it, etc). And the 701 governor is totally to die for and I don't want to give it up (I know the 750 has the same gov. tho).

But if I just added the BX, I could just pull the gyro sensor from the 701 and run it in governor-only mode. And I wouldn't have to give up my to-die-for 701 governor . And I'd save another $100 or so....

That's after the ol' bank account recovers from all this, tho, if I decided to do that.

LS

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12-18-2011 12:53 AM  5 years agoPost 32
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Gone back to the flybar.

Turns out the flopping over to the left was _not_ pilot error. There was a definite tipping of the swash to the left at certain points in the spoolup on a couple of occasions out at the field today. Finally, on the 4th or 5th flight, it did it again with a HARD full left cyclic thrust. Fortunately, I was nose-in on this particular takeoff (one of my comfortable orientations) and not side-in like the last time. I managed to give full right aileron automatically in time and popped the collective all the way down and was able to save it.

Probably some kind of vibration issue, since I couldn't replicate it again with my align 690's on the machine.

I'm not really down with uncommanded full excursion control movements on my flying machines. Just doesn't add much to the fun.

At that point, I figured well, I can chase this and chase it and chase it or I can drop my old flybar head back into it and go fly with no worries. So I've chosen the latter.

Anyway, thanks for all the help!

LS

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12-18-2011 11:50 AM  5 years agoPost 33
rpat

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Weirton, W. Va.

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Well I have the 3G on my 600 and just installed the 750 on my 700. The 750 comes with a 125 page instruction book. Thank god I fly with a fella that knows the unit. What you are going to find out is that electrics react a lot better than nitros due to vibrations. Thats a shame that you had to give up on it.

trex 700fbl cal30,minititan,, trx600fbl,trex250,logo 500,Velocity N2

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12-18-2011 12:39 PM  5 years agoPost 34
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Thats a shame that you had to give up on it.
Well sudden, uncommanded control inputs all the way to the stop don't cut it on a flying machine drifting, bobbling and such I can deal with because I can fix problems like that. But sudden controls that I didn't input.... er, no, sorry. I'm just not rich enough to debug problems like that, where the heli is dead before I can even troubleshoot the problem lol.

I'm going to wait a while and let the technology advance a little more before I try it again. Maybe by the time I can no longer get parts for my flybars, these units will have stuff like this sorted and for a better price. If not and I'm forced into FBL and it's still like this, I'll just go back to flying my full scale and get out of it lol.

I didn't mind the way it flew, tho, once I got used to it. Turned the heli into a pattern plane, basically. But my flybars are still a lot more stable in the hover....

LS

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12-18-2011 02:31 PM  5 years agoPost 35
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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FWIW, I have the same issue with the Ace GT5 FBL unit on a T-Rex 700N as unclejane is having. I know it is vibration issue as I also had this problem with a V-Bar on a nitro heli before. Same exact issue as unclejane, uncommanded roll. My T-Rex will do a quick twitch right roll anywhere from 10° to 45%. It does not self correct either. I have to give opposite roll left to correct these uncommanded movements.

Nitro and FBL generally don't play well together. However, I do have one nitro model with the Futaba CGY 750 that works like a dream! So, I am not giving up on my T-Rex just yet. I've already replaced the OS 91HZ-PS with a 91HZ-R. We'll see how that works today. Perhaps the smoother engine operation will reduce the vibrations to where the GT5 will work properly now. If that doesn't work, I'll get another CGY 750. Maybe, I should have done that in the first place.

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12-18-2011 02:42 PM  5 years agoPost 36
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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That was my initial thought also, because my GY701 is like a rock on my 700N (also with the 91 HZ-R). But too much money for too much risk.

May just sell the electric and use those funds for a 105 for the 700N instead

LS

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12-18-2011 03:55 PM  5 years agoPost 37
heli-cuzz

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Pittston, Pa. USA

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But the 750 looks like it would have been a breeze also...
It is a breeze.
I do have one nitro model with the Futaba CGY 750 that works like a dream!
Flying my nitro Frenzy CGY750 >>>>> Pinch me!!!.... Am I dreaming?
I'll get another CGY 750. Maybe, I should have done that in the first place.
100% agreed rexxi.

All I have to say about my cgy750 system on my fbl Frenzy nitro 50.
It flies so much like my Phoenix simulator....
..... It's silly fun!!!!

Fury 55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90

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12-19-2011 12:39 AM  5 years agoPost 38
jgalen0025

rrNovice

royersford, pa- US

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Blaming marketing and fbl companies for your non-mechanically sound heli smells like bulls*** to me A properly setup up mechanically sound heli will have Absolutely no problems whatsoever. As evidenced by my setup of my helis and hundreds of customers helis both nitro and electric.
Fbl is the best thing that has happened to this hobby since 2.4, whether it's beast, vbar, or helicommand. Flybars are/will become the same as 72hz radio modules.

As far as the op is concerned, out of all the helis I have setup. I do a few major things.
1 check all bearings
2 balance tail assay, main blades, and fan assay(nitro)
3 educate yourself thoroughly with your unit and it's settings before attempting any setup

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12-19-2011 12:55 AM  5 years agoPost 39
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Blaming marketing and fbl companies for your non-mechanically sound heli smells like bulls*** to me
In what way is my heli "non-mechanically sound"?
Fbl is the best thing that has happened to this hobby since 2.4,
I'm not so sure (2.4 was a quantum leap of goodness, FBL not so much). Now that I've gotten to fly both FBL and FB, I don't think it's a slam dunk. FBL units still have a way to go, in my view. The way the BeastX flew was intriguing, but it can't hold a candle to my FB heads in the hover. The gyros are kind of "dumb" - they simply hold an attitude and move from one attitude to another. My BeastX felt very "linear", especially around center stick. FB's, tho, are a little more intelligent in how they respond, especially in the hover - there's a kind of non-linearity and self-correction that I noticed was missing on the FBL. I eventually got to where I could hold the machine still, but the workload was significantly higher than doing the same thing with a FB.

And they sure can't handle vibration as good as my flybar either .

I remain intrigued by it and will probably try it again, but IMO, it's Not Quite There Yet. At least not until they figure out how to build a gyro that can handle vibes (no such thing as a vibe-free helicopter).
Flybars are/will become the same as 72hz radio modules.
Unfortunately, you're probably right. Hopefully by then FBL technology will be a little better than it is now, tho, and it won't make much difference...

LS

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12-19-2011 02:07 AM  5 years agoPost 40
jgalen0025

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royersford, pa- US

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FBl units are fairly new and are always evolving, but it seems more like your bias coming into this has hindered your ability to set up the beast properly which includes doing things that you wouldnt do for a flybar heli. You are the first i have ever heard of someone who has tried fbl and went back to fb bc of dissatisfaction. Either your right and fbl has a long way to go or everyone else is wrong?

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HelicopterMain Discussion › FBL - underwhelming performance so far...
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