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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › engine component weight reduction?
12-15-2011 10:27 PM  5 years agoPost 1
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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how much do you guys think of the following weight reduction of the following engine components of a Zenoah 20ei would boost engine power,

piston 10% lighter
connecting rod 33% lighter
Piston wrist pin 10% lighter
piston bearing spacers 45% lighter

the engine does run at full throttle with a 14x12 prop and is balanced and trued,(its run about 12oz of fuel so far with no problems)

any simple way to check a power gain?

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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12-15-2011 11:27 PM  5 years agoPost 2
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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Edited

not much, BH is only reporting a 20% Gain in Power with their Ported and Balanced engine

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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12-16-2011 12:50 AM  5 years agoPost 3
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Easy

Tach it stock with the prop and see how much rpms you make at full throttle.

Do the mods and then run it up again with the same prop and see how much more rpms you're going to make.
BH is only reporting a 20% Gain in Power with their Ported and Balanced engine
That's being conservative with that little 20 if done right you'll see a considerable gain.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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12-16-2011 01:15 AM  5 years agoPost 4
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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, RPM is one thing, Torque is something else, if Helis were tuned like a Plane then I would agree, but it just don't work that way with Helis, and he's not talking about modified Porting

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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12-16-2011 01:29 AM  5 years agoPost 5
C.A.P.

rrApprentice

custer park IL.

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piston 10% lighter
connecting rod 33% lighter
Piston wrist pin 10% lighter
piston bearing spacers 45% lighter
Sorry none of these will give you more torque and rpms.

Porting,increase in compression,and other things, will give you more torque and rpms.

They may make it smoother,at the most
But just a lighter piston (17.5gr)will do perfect job for smoothest,and help transfer more of the engine power and rpm to the crank,

Wrist pin comes already lighten on the 20cc, making it to short will cause piston imbalance.

Playing with the connecting rod, can cause it to become weaker at high rpm "not good, ask me how I know"

Piston bearing washers are engineered to keep the piston rod centered in the piston, cutting the cups (which are there to center the rod to the roller bearing themselves) can cause the rod to run on the edge of the bearing and can cause the rod to bind and push the piston against the cylinder walls. not good .

You should talk to an engine builder. They will glady give advise on most of the stuff.

Wally
(Affiliation) RC-Aftermarket (Engine Modifier & Engine Designer)

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12-16-2011 02:50 AM  5 years agoPost 6
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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difference in weight does not come from modifying the existing components, rather they new parts(except piston)made from a very strong titanium alloy (also a real PITA to machine), to the exact dimentions (connecting rod, spacers and piston pin are custom parts). piston had the typical weight reduction by removing access material and improving flow. then the whole thing is reassembled, re-balanced and trued. I did the machining myself

it does run a whole lot smoother and even idles better, but there has to be an improvement somewhere besides vibs...

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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12-16-2011 11:29 PM  5 years agoPost 7
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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careful when using Titanium Alloy Rods,
I don't know about using them in Gasser Heli Engines, but in the 90s when I ran RC Boats the thing to do was, if you used Titanium Alloy Rods you needed to replace them after a given amount of Runs because they would get small Cracks in them that would turn into large Cracks,, in other words, if you ant racing weekly to win don't use them,,
but like I say> I don't know about using them in Gasser Heli Engines, but let us know how it works out in the long-run

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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12-17-2011 08:48 PM  5 years agoPost 8
James Kovach

rrKey Veteran

canton, oh - US

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RM3,

"Power increases" or "Performance Increases". Those are two totally different things yet by many are always thought to be the same. "Performance Increases" are easily mistaken for "Power Increases" because they are "Power Increases" in the spot we are all wanting them... Where the "Rubber hits the Road" or in our case... "Where the blades hit the air". "Performance Increases" are improvements in the efficiency of the engine. Transferring as much of the power it makes from the fuel to the end. The stuff you have done will do just that. Then engine will need less of its power to turn its internal parts and thereby transfer more of that power to the drive system of the helicopter. Yes, increasing the amount of power output into the system.

WHat you will likely see is probably %10 more power put into the system. Better recovery from a loaded situation. Quicker RPM response.

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
Let'r Rip Tator Chip

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12-17-2011 11:06 PM  5 years agoPost 9
D Pedersen

rrApprentice

Rycroft .Alberta ​.Canada

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Edited

not much, BH is only reporting a 20% Gain in Power with their Ported and Balanced engine
Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz
[quote]

Wow I think 20% is a great gain.An increase of 1/5 of the total power is a big gain .The engine already flew the heli ok and now you have 20% more power to go straight towards performance increase.

Logo 550SX / Rush 766 / TT E700

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12-18-2011 03:24 AM  5 years agoPost 10
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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edited

"20%"

yes, I do believe that what RM3 did to his Engine would increase power, but as I did say> "not much", there is a reason why they make lightened Pistons and lightened Cranks for the Chevy SB ,,
my point about the BH Engine is that it's Inner Components were Balanced and Lightened AND it is also Ported and Rated to produce 20% more Power than stock, Point> so there is no way that RM3's Engine with it's Stock Porting would have an Increase in Power as much as 20%..

to add, as for me saying> "is only reporting a 20% Gain", the BH Engine was Modified to a point and no more, meaning if it would hold together there is more power in it to be found..

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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12-18-2011 07:20 PM  5 years agoPost 11
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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I do not expect to get 20% more power compared to stock, especially on the small 20cc with just weight reduction. just want to push the limits of space age metals everywhere I ccan on this engine and then push it to max rpms and load to see if I can break it. will try porting and compression changes too. Would be nice to see big time modders do somthing besides chopping up the piston and cylinder to make more power. like one other idea: why not put the magnets that excite the primary coil on the counter weight portion of the internal crank and make the primary coil part of the lower engine case? weight wise this would be just like a EI engine without the weight of a battery, or a a 231 without the weight of the flywheel...

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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