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HelicopterMain Discussion › Is FBL cheating?
12-03-2011 03:42 PM  5 years agoPost 61
BrainDrain_dx

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Wichita KS

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Is FBL on a FBL helicopter cheating? No, it's needed to fly.

Is the control scheme of FBL on a naturally stable airframe cheating? Yes, makes it toooooo easy to fly.

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12-03-2011 03:46 PM  5 years agoPost 62
rudyy

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E. Amherst, NY

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Another endless debate about cheating or not cheating ...

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12-03-2011 03:48 PM  5 years agoPost 63
BrainDrain_dx

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Wichita KS

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It's winter, we are bored

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12-03-2011 04:16 PM  5 years agoPost 64
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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uh oh - the "toy" thing again....

>Only that they are objects meant for enjoyment and serve no other purpose in your life.<

I actually don't completely agree with this. R/c helis, and really any model aircraft, aren't completely useless. In fact, they:

a) are useful for modelling and testing designs that can apply to aviation in general. i.e. the advances in electric propulsion that have come to r/c can inspire electric solutions for full scale aircraft. Burt Rutan, for example, has reportedly been heavily influenced by electrics in r/c and will probably use some of those ideas to develop a practical electric system for full scale (if anyone can do it, he can).

b) are useful for the development of particular skillsets that may attend flying particular types of aircraft or aircraft with particular features (i.e. FBL r/c helis).

Now, sort of drifting back to the original point, I'll bet the idea of b) is where this question of "cheating" comes from. There may be the perception that a particular development in aircraft (i.e. FBL units) may be a "crutch" against some percieved-necessary skillset involved in flying that aircraft.

Then the question becomes what really is that skillset? Does it have to include flying an r/c heli with a flybar and no (FBL) 3-axis gyro? Or is a FBL 3-axis gyro and no flybar just an accepted set of equipment on a heli and whatever the skill involved in flying a flybar is, is it not something necessary to acquire?

My tendency, again without having even flown a FBL heli yet, is to think that, no, there's no real gain from having the flybar-skill bit in ones teeth. FBL and the associated FBL gyros are going to simply become "standard equipment" on r/c helis and whatever the "flybar" skill is, it's not going to be a necessary skill to fly them.

This is kind of how it is with the tail on an r/c heli - the HH gyro is an accepted piece of standard equipment now and being able to fly without one simply isn't an important skill.

In my case, I love hovering my FB helis, but I don't love what happens when I do some FFF or flips or loops..... So I may move to FBL at some point in the near future to take advantage of how FBL partially solves some of those problems...

LS

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12-03-2011 04:30 PM  5 years agoPost 65
GyroFreak

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Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Only that they are objects meant for enjoyment and serve no other purpose in your life.
Lets not forget professional AP work. They are defiantly not 'toys' for this kind of serious work.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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12-03-2011 04:31 PM  5 years agoPost 66
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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I actually don't completely agree with this. R/c helis, and really any model aircraft, aren't completely useless. In fact, they:

a) are useful for modelling and testing designs that can apply to aviation in general. i.e. the advances in electric propulsion that have come to r/c can inspire electric solutions for full scale aircraft. Burt Rutan, for example, has reportedly been heavily influenced by electrics in r/c and will probably use some of those ideas to develop an electric system for full scale (if anyone can do it, he can).

b) are useful for the development of particular skillsets that may attend flying particular types of aircraft or aircraft with particular features (i.e. FBL r/c helis).
Lets not forget AP work. They are defiantly not 'toys' for this kind of serious work.
I,along with the vast majority of RC heli flyers,do not USE the heli for any of that.

They make me smile. That is their only purpose. Period.
Soooo....TOY

A childs ball can display all sorts of physics information.
Almost ANY toy can be useful in the right hands but in the hands of its intended end user...it is a toy meant to bring enjoyment.

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12-03-2011 04:34 PM  5 years agoPost 67
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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Is the control scheme of FBL on a naturally stable airframe cheating? Yes, makes it toooooo easy to fly.
Too easy for who?
It's none of your business how I like my toy helicopter to fly and there is no standard.
It's likewise none of my business how you like to enjoy your toys.

It's a personal preference. Plain and simple.

No rule/law = No cheating possible.

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12-03-2011 04:38 PM  5 years agoPost 68
heli-cuzz

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Pittston, Pa. USA

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I cheated on my fbl helicopter this morning and flew a Raptor30 with a flybar.

Fury 55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90

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12-03-2011 04:55 PM  5 years agoPost 69
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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I cheated on my fbl helicopter this morning and flew a Raptor30 with a flybar.
You dog.lol...

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12-03-2011 05:02 PM  5 years agoPost 70
Santiago P

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South West, Ohio

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So I'm reading all this stuff about FBL... Sits rock solid in the wind... Roll's are straight and easier...
I was just wondering why are posting to cheating question (besides that we are bored) and the 1st line from the OP caught my eye.

I'll repeat it again, Gyros react to rotational motion, not to displacement. In aerobatics, they compensate/correct for all the asymetric reaction of a rotor disk and makes it fly almost like a symetric fix wing, and sometimes better, because it holds "attitude" regardless.

But FBL systems DO NOT compensate for linear drift, and cannot "hover in wind" as well as a well setup flybared head. If you think I am wrong, come to an AMA or FAI contest and try it, you will be rapped by every flybar model. In FAI, FBL systems they don't measure up (yet), in 3D they rule.
There is similar thread like this one with more detail on the FAI forum regarding this point.

For some of you, Take a vacation away from the Main Discussion forum and check out the rest of runryder. You are missing on many good posts that are appropiately placed in the website.

Santiago

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12-03-2011 05:09 PM  5 years agoPost 71
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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>I,along with the vast majority of RC heli flyers,do not USE the heli for any of that.<

Sure, but that doesn't mean our helis are necessarily useless to everybody else.

>They make me smile. That is their only purpose. Period.
Soooo....TOY. A childs ball can display all sorts of physics information.
Almost ANY toy can be useful in the right hands but in the hands of its intended end user...it is a toy meant to bring enjoyment.<

To you and I perhaps, but not to everyone. So I don't agree they're simply useless in an overall objective sense - Instead, I'd say they're useless only on an individual intended-purpose basis.

By the same token they can also be useful for a lot of different things - education, experimentation, and even more sinister objectives like surveillance and other criminal activities.

But more to the point, I'd agree the actual skillset itself involved in flying one doesn't have that wide of a range of application in "useful" activities. Maybe spraying crops with that big Yamaha thing you see on Youtube.... So yeah it's probably harder to "cheat" there....

LS

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12-03-2011 06:22 PM  5 years agoPost 72
falcon

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UK

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unclejane
in your post "uh oh - the "toy" thing again...."
if i give you my phone number will you phone and explain your last post to my Wife because she thinks they are toys LOL

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12-03-2011 07:20 PM  5 years agoPost 73
Havoc

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Ky.

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Unless NASA, Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, Scaled Composites, or even AOPA calls you after you land your Avistar or MCpx and asks you how your flight went then it is probably a "toy". I think there is enough ego in the hobby that we don't need to over inflate what we do.

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12-03-2011 08:27 PM  5 years agoPost 74
Qrrambero

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San Francisco / Bay Area

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I wonder if my grandfather asked this question.
" Is the Automatic Transmission is cheating?"
Thing are made easier for us these days. It isn't cheating. Just better and more efficient.

Ae

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12-03-2011 08:49 PM  5 years agoPost 75
rchelichop

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seeya

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FBL is not cheating, but it certainly makes flying helis easier. Obviously it does because everyone uses it and it takes out a lot of finer corrections for gyroscopic precession and wind disturbances out of the mix.

Personally, I don't think its cheating unless you in a contest because it can give a advantage over someone not running a electronic gyro unit. Kinda like the guy doing a tail slide without a HH gyro. Some newbie could do it with a HH gyro no problem, but doing it without it takes more skill and to me, is more impressive to be able to do it without.

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12-03-2011 09:11 PM  5 years agoPost 76
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Personally, I don't think its cheating unless you in a contest because it can give a advantage over someone not running a electronic gyro unit.
Ah here we go, does anyone think the judges take this into consideration? Serious question?

60% of the time, it works every time!

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12-03-2011 11:03 PM  5 years agoPost 77
heli-cuzz

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Pittston, Pa. USA

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Is FBL on a FBL helicopter cheating? No, it's needed to fly.
A fbl system is definitely not needed to fly a fbl helicopter.

Fury 55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90

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12-04-2011 12:23 AM  5 years agoPost 78
Santiago P

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South West, Ohio

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Like helicuzz said, Not needed but nicer with the FBL system.

People have been flying Flybarless since, uhh, 1977? My mind only goes that far. here an example, 1979 Kavan Jet Ranger (from Joe's Collection in UK)

The head stabilization units just became popular the last few years.

The GMP Legend was a mid era (~1989) FBL heli, back when we still did not have off the shelf stabilization units.
http://1017.org/cricket/legend.html

BTW
So, who are we cheating if we use one? My rule book says the same a McKrackin's,

one line:

1. Have Fun flying

end of book

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12-04-2011 12:32 AM  5 years agoPost 79
bkervaski

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Birmingham, AL, USA

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Is FBL cheating?
Only if it's within 50 miles of your flybarred heli ...

Team Synergy Factory Specialist / Scorpion / Thunder Power / Byron's Fuels

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12-04-2011 12:54 AM  5 years agoPost 80
BobOD

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New York- USA

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A pilot who can perform the same maneuver without e-stabilization versus with IS a better pilot though...worth some consideration.
Perhaps that's the challenge here.

Team POP Secret

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Is FBL cheating?
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