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HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › The sanctity of marriage...
12-03-2011 11:02 PM  5 years agoPost 81
helicopter

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Men of depraved mind, HE gave them over to......

I love gravity, it always keeps my feet planted when I fly!

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12-03-2011 11:04 PM  5 years agoPost 82
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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Ta DA !

!!!!!!!!!!!!!SCORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SWISHED from the COrner ! 3 pT'S

greyeagle

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12-03-2011 11:49 PM  5 years agoPost 83
Thomas L Erb

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Alliance ohio

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Don't give that God nonsense
Now you just said you are looking for answer to your question and you choose to ignore what may be a large part of up your answer I'm not saying you must believe anything but in order to find what you seek you must look a all angles. Christianaty has been around for over 2,000 years now and you can't deny it plays a large part in your answer as do other cultural ,physical and perceptions.

Now provided you act like syo does you will find a very large knowledge base here from many sources. Most of this issue is cultural related but one can't deny that physically this lifestyle is functionally incorrect. Now I will interject my opinion here so you hav been warned. I do believe i was created by God and he created us male and female as humans, if we evolved as some believe they always point to evolution keeps good features and bad features are passed up as we evolve. Why is it that functionally male and female have shown zero change in this area as far back as we can speculate? (this is a very long subject so for this discussion we need not chew to are here, I'm just passing on a thought)
More to come gotta go now.

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12-04-2011 12:09 AM  5 years agoPost 84
WannaBe4D

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Now you just said you are looking for answer to your question and you choose to ignore what may be a large part of up your answer
I just choose to ignore the blanket acceptance that people can excuse all of their biases for religion. Of course I understand that religion is going to play a huge part of a lot of people opinions. But even still, how is it possible that we as a society, can allow religious beliefs to impede on the rights of equal citizens.

At its purest, the separation of church and state should not allow someone to use religion as an argument to impede on the equal rights of Americans.

And it seems that helicopter is better at patronizing than at thinking. I mean, I can quote books that identify a flying spaghetti monster as the origin of the earth, doesn't mean it's true, and it doesn't mean I should present it as fact.

Most of the time, I can be seen having more ambition than skill.

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12-04-2011 12:14 AM  5 years agoPost 85
sks

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london

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helicopter, Grey and Thomas, you're such pathetic circus animals, you really are.

cringe inducing to say the least.

have you ever contemplated the fact that homosexuality might just be a natural occurrence in our species - and has always been? Has it even ever crossed your mind that some of your relatives might be gay, and some of your descendants definitely will be too? Does that bother you?

I rather that the whole world was heterosexual because then we won't have this "problem", but that's not how things are. In the past such people we persecute or labeled abnormal, or considered medically inferior etc, etc. . . this only came more to light because the world is getting to be more populated and naturally their numbers have increased.

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12-04-2011 01:03 AM  5 years agoPost 86
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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At its purest, the separation of church and state should not allow someone to use religion as an argument to impede on the equal rights of Americans.
There is nothing in the Constitution about direct "Separation Of Church And State". At its purest. Liberals keep going back to that and making the premise that it is in the Constitution. Its not.

Here is what the Constitution says about religion:

U.S. Constitution - Amendment 1

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If you can find "Separation Of Church And State" in the Constitution anywhere, then by all means, show us where it is. You can't get that out of the first amendment. That amendment only refers to "Freedom Of Religion". Not "Separation Of Church And State". Thats the only place in the Constitution that refers to religion. The "Bill Of Rights refers to religion. But, only to the extent that no public office holder can require anyone to adhere to a specific religion.
But even still, how is it possible that we as a society, can allow religious beliefs to impede on the rights of equal citizens.
I beleive the Constitution prevents that. But, tell that to people when they go to the voting booth. You can't, obviously. So, you may be battling a cultural tradition. Thats a tough one.

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12-04-2011 01:40 AM  5 years agoPost 87
WannaBe4D

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When asked of the meaning of the "establishment clause" in the first amendment -
[James] Madison said he apprehended the meaning of the words to be, that Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any manner contrary to their conscience...
So the original intent of the first amendment was to ensure that Congress could not pass law based of religious preferences.

This interpretation of the law was provided by one of the men who wrote it, not some silly Liberal.

Most of the time, I can be seen having more ambition than skill.

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12-04-2011 01:49 AM  5 years agoPost 88
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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So the original intent of the first amendment was to ensure that Congress could not pass law based of religious preferences.
Correct.

But, MY point was the Constitution does not say anything about "Separation Of Church And State". That was YOUR point here:
At its purest, the separation of church and state should not allow someone to use religion as an argument to impede on the equal rights of Americans.
This interpretation of the law was provided by one of the men who wrote it, not some silly Liberal.
Correct.

But, its the silly liberals that keep throwing out the "Separation Of Church And State" and way overreacting on it to the point that it infringes on the first amendment in that it infringes on "The Free Exercise Of Religion". Especially in our schools.

There is no such thing as "Separation Of Church And State" anywhere in the Constitution. That was a phrase that Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter. Thats it. Thats all it was and is.

That was my point to correct your point.

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12-04-2011 02:01 AM  5 years agoPost 89
WannaBe4D

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There is no such thing as "Separation Of Church And State" anywhere in the Constitution
Can you point me to where I said it was? No, I was referring to the separation of church and state as a concept. Which in subsequent conversation we have determined that this was the intent of the first amendment.

Most of the time, I can be seen having more ambition than skill.

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12-04-2011 02:14 AM  5 years agoPost 90
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Can you point me to where I said it was?
You inferred just exactly that.
No, I was referring to the separation of church and state as a concept. Which in subsequent conversation we have determined that this was the intent of the first amendment.
It is a concept.

But, its not in the Constitution.

Nowhere. The 1st amendment refers to "Freedom Of Religion" and the "Free Exercise Of Religion". That refers to all US citizens. All of us. Not just some. But, all of us.

Thats it. It does not specifically say anything about "Separation Of Church And State" anywhere in the Constitution.

If it did, it would be restricting the "Free Exercise Of Religion". Thats why its not in the Constitution.

Now, do you understand?

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12-04-2011 02:41 AM  5 years agoPost 91
WannaBe4D

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You inferred just exactly that.
I did not, don't put words in my mouth.
It is a concept.

But, its not in the Constitution.
See point above.

Now I will play your game; nowhere in the first amendment does it mention "Freedom Of Religion" or "Free Exercise Of Religion". It makes reference to these concepts as well as the "separation of church and state" as I've outline in previous posts.

All I'm asking is you apply the same rules to my argument as you do to yours. Understand that concept?

Most of the time, I can be seen having more ambition than skill.

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12-04-2011 03:00 AM  5 years agoPost 92
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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I did not, don't put words in my mouth.
OK, I'll give you that.

But, you did bring it up. And, it does refer to being written in the Constitution. Its nowhere in our Constitution or our laws.
Now I will play your game; nowhere in the first amendment does it mention "Freedom Of Religion" or "Free Exercise Of Religion". It makes reference to these concepts as well as the "separation of church and state" as I've outline in previous posts.
Nowhere ???

Here it is again:

Here is what the Constitution says about religion:

U.S. Constitution - Amendment 1

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

"Or Prohibiting The Free Exercise Of Religion" is certainly "Freedom Of Religion".

Thats not intended to be a game. That is a literal interpretation of the 1st amendment because thats what the founders wished based on England's laws that restricted religious belief. Thats why the 1st amendment is the "1st" amendment. It was their primary beef.

Nowhere in the 1st amendment does it say "Separation Of Church And State". If thats your concept, then fine. But, its not law anywhere. It can't be or it would be "Prohibiting The Free Exercise Of Religion".

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12-04-2011 03:32 AM  5 years agoPost 93
Thomas L Erb

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Alliance ohio

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have you ever contemplated the fact that homosexuality might just be a natural occurrence in our species - and has always been?
Of course I hae thought about it and even in the light of evolution it holds no water but if you think you and your relatives are gay then by golly wow !!! We have a winnnnner!!!! Cyo you will never understand the freedom we have here .

My point here wannabe4d is if you don't know what religion stands for on the matter how can you hope to understand why people reject gay marriage.it is just educating yourself to what effects your cause. now is it just marriage ,or redefining marriage or gay rights in general that you seek answers for? Or is it a different item of interest?

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12-04-2011 03:41 AM  5 years agoPost 94
Thomas L Erb

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Alliance ohio

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At its purest, the separation of church and state should not allow someone to use religion as an argument to impede on the equal rights of Americans.
The previous argument aside .religious principles and ethics derived from said religion founded this country! If they would have taught you real history in school you would know this already. Don't bother arguing the fact because it is to deeply imbedded in or money our goverment buildings and so on to deny. This is still a majority rule country that has been wounded mortally by the entitlement minded liberal left which has decieved many for so long they don't even believe history books anymore. So for now religion still plays a great part in our society like it or not.

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12-04-2011 05:56 AM  5 years agoPost 95
WannaBe4D

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This is probably going to be my longest post ever.
The previous argument aside .religious principles and ethics derived from said religion founded this country!
Nothing could be further from the truth. Consider the founding fathers, to include:

"There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites" - Thomas Jefferson "Politics and Religious Illiteracy," Truth Seeker, Vol. 121, No. 3, p. 33

Washington "was not a communicant, notwithstanding all the pretty stories to the contrary, and after the close of the sermon on sacramental Sundays, [he] had fallen into the habit of retiring from the church while his wife remained and communed" (Remsberg "Six Historic Americans.", p. 107)

"among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism" (Paul F. Boller, George Washington & Religion, pp. 14-15)

"the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion..." - George Washington, Article 11 of the Treaty with Tripoli

"Now, be it known, that I, John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said treaty, do, by and within the consent of the Senate, accept, ratify and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof." - John Adams (in reference to the Treaty of Tripoli)

"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy." - James Madison

And my last point is the most important, please don't ignore this one. The Bible states that "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God." Romans 13:1

So please tell me, what true believing Christian would declare independence from a government they believe is instituted by God? To rebel against this government is to directly rebel against God.
If they would have taught you real history in school you would know this already.
Oddly enough, my "real history" professors instructed history outside of any religious context. Even more exciting news for you, it was at a Christian University
Don't bother arguing the fact because it is to deeply imbedded in or money our goverment buildings and so on to deny.
You forgot that God is also mentioned in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Regarding coinage, the original motto of the United States was of course "E Pluribus Unum" and was first struck on the New Jersey cent of 1786. "In God we trust" wasn't stuck on a U.S. coin until December 9, 1863. Hardly able to consider this a founding principal.

Regarding the Pledge of Allegiance. It was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (a Baptist Minister) to read "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." The words "under God" were not added until February 12, 1948 by Louis A. Bowman.

In both cases (coinage and the Pledge) the inclusion of God was added well after these acts were first established. Much like other cases where God is present in government.
This is still a majority rule country that has been wounded mortally by the entitlement minded liberal left which has decieved many for so long they don't even believe history books anymore.
I wouldn't call it exactly a "majority rule country" (ex. electoral college), but you have a point. This is still a majority rules country, but this is no excuse degrade or impose upon the rights of anyone (current topic aside).
So for now religion still plays a great part in our society like it or not.
Such is the reason for American decadence.

Most of the time, I can be seen having more ambition than skill.

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12-04-2011 08:20 AM  5 years agoPost 96
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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Is Eden OVER ????? Really ???

Sorry Scooter Need to go to the ORIGINAL Source : Like Washington - Adam's - Madison or Jefferson :

More than a few of the { Signature's } had their Cape's, Collar's, Bible's and Cross's The Original: MIB = { MEn In Black }

Further more if your Christian History Prof "Actually" new his history - many were counseled by and relied heavily " on their MIB " during that period. One of them actually wrote what could be considered a bastardized Bible on his sole interpretations, with his own admissions and deletion's.

You had your $$$ Tuition SQUANDERED You got what you payed for not much )

Also: on the side : several - were traveling out of the country -it was common " business" = " guess on what " and the Ole Schooner's and sail's were just a tad faster than a Pony or Snail mail : Say give or take 3 or 4 week's at a time
:
Better: Purchase a Copy of the Federalist Paper's. "Let's just call it the Seed" I hope myself to own a set Just to see the actual grinding / debate / and deliberations that went on among them prior to the Finial Signature Document's The word Nasty is a pretty good description - "Liberty - Freedom -Independence" a blood cost for protection. Ugly -Stinking -EXPENSIVE

"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy." - James Madison
Find a 32 degree Mason { Some day if their is trouble on the ground he may save your life or your families } with his -
only way you will know is if you spot the ring. It is not secular but more.


The Bible states that "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God." Romans 13:1
[/quote]

Followed by your :
So please tell me, what true believing Christian would declare [[[independence from a government they believe is instituted by God?]]] = [[[To rebel against this government is to directly rebel against God.]]]
SORRY MOLASSES : GOD"S law is separate than { man's law }
Romans 13:1 Your really dipped in the stuff here, PEW

Separation of ROMAN CIVILALN AUTHORITY from GOD"s

(KJV) THE BIBLE SAY's

Romans 13

1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

It is a Pauline comment / live with the stinking Roman politician's / but rest assured = IN GOD has the HIGHEST AUTHORITY

"E Pluribus Unum"

( FROM MANY IS ONE )= The Original 13 Colonies = A Free Nation is Born: if you did a deep study it has another to those whom know the other under tone From ONE is Many

Then this rises

So for now religion still plays a great part in our society like it or not.
Such is the reason for American decadence.

Tomorrow we may discuss the current 21st Century Plagues

Then we can ponder the acronym's: How we can re- label them again and what IS Occurring ; by the thousand's. and GAY Marriage ! & Morality

AID's
HIV
HPV -Secretly Nasty to Both Sexes - Oral & Internal Cancer's and they mutate. It's a Wild Fire : NEW

And what the anti retro's vi-rial's Really do. { You still Die - just takes longer though.

Then we no- longer vaccinate:
Measles's " Plural "
Pox's " Plural "
Polio " Raging in Asia"
TB - Rampant
& the NEW WTF's is That !

Got to go : I have a little guy to pray for - He' need's Flip Flop's, Suspender's to hold his swimming suit on , maybe Chinese Water Goggles, and a Snorkel.

When it Storm's, Flood's & It Rains on Him WITH THE LOVE OF JESUS he's gonna be standing under Niagara FALL"S as it fill's his puney little: to OVER capacity

Molasses (Please) go practice Gravity !

greyeagle

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12-04-2011 10:43 AM  5 years agoPost 97
sks

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london

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Grey the deranged bear, makes no sense whatsoever.

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12-04-2011 01:07 PM  5 years agoPost 98
helicopter

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I am an Atheist, and all I can do is post little
pictures of animals with my very limited vision
and decadent heart muscle. I AM going to do what
ever I desire and no one, not even YOUR Stupid
moronic God on the Cross thing is going to stop

ME!

I love gravity, it always keeps my feet planted when I fly!

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12-04-2011 01:21 PM  5 years agoPost 99
sks

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london

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I am an Atheist, and all I can do is post little
pictures of animals with my very limited vision
and decadent heart muscle. I AM going to do what
ever I desire and no one, not even YOUR Stupid
moronic God on the Cross thing is going to stop

ME!
what, as in contrast to upholding a piece of sh$t religion?

a religion where people like you are promised forgiveness for your past behaviour and granted everlasting life, and all that crap? that kind of thing?

I never was an atheist.

The only problem with you is that the truth hurts and you can't accept that. You think I'm all "me, me, me", when the truth of that matter is that it's you who has that attitude. I'm not the one claiming "do this and you'll go to heaven and live forever" and rabbiting on about how wonderful it all is going to be for anyone who "believes". I have given negative retorts, which in effect, affects me too, they were not in my self interest to give them. I rather that the Bible is correct and that we can all go to heaven and live forever and not have to suffer pain and grief in the process of life, but honesty prevents me from accepting this piece of sh@£ of yours.

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12-04-2011 02:25 PM  5 years agoPost 100
steve9534

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yakima, wa.

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WannaBe4D

You're saying that the APA data that was excluded is not relative{???} to the study. I believe the word you were looking for is relevant. I don't see why asking them to report on the outcomes for all the children of Gay parents, not just the favored ones who end up in 2 parent homes, is irrelevant. Even among this select group, using unknown criteria of their choosing, the results were no better than average. What can we expect has become of the rest of the children? The article about economic benefit presupposes that Gays won't live together and help each other unless we allow them to get a marriage license. One would hope that assumption is fallacious and those who wish to claim the societal benefits of marriage in a ceremony where they promise themselves to each other "till death do us part" would love each other enough to care for their partners even if they didn't have the license. The wedding industry may see some benefit and money would be spent for Gay marriages, so you win. You have found a benefit to society. You also failed to mention that the divorce lawyers would undoubtedly see a spike in their business as the ill-conceived alliances are dissolved, again you win. I'll beg off for now. It's clear that your mind is made up and that your willing to accept the APA's "science" w/o analysis or question. Happy flying. steve.

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