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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsV-Bar › geometry settings in v.4
11-30-2011 05:51 PM  5 years agoPost 1
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

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I'm still running v.4 of the software*****

I'm setting up a furion 450 for the first time, and there is no preset in the software. i did find a couple of preset files online, but every time i load one the unit will not initialize. i've never had this issue loading a preset before and don't know how to begin to troubleshoot. but, that's not the question here.

Trex450 preset got the servos moving the right direction. So, i loaded that and moved forward. i got my tx calibrated, and swash leveled.

But, since i don't have a proper preset i'm not sure how to manually set the geometry (swashplate servo parameters). The hovertext is not helping terribly.

Currenly the following values are what were pre-populated from a new setup with the subtrims and leveling from the above setup process:

Angle: 270 151 29
Distance: 100 100 100
Center: 16 6 22

Do I need to do anything with the above? I (incorrectly) assumed that distance was from center of main shaft to center of outer swash ball in mm. i adjusted this number to 23, but the softwar3e moved the balls all together in the center of the swash graphic. i put them back to 100. now i'm stuck.

I'm afraid to spool this thing if it's just going to beat itself to death on the ground--or worse in the air.

*****It is my plan to upgrade to v5 pro on all my machines after i get a baseline of how all my v4s fly. I've never flown vbar on anything as small as a 450 and just want to compare it to how my 600 and 700-class v4 vbar helis feel.

if it ain't broke, break it.

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12-01-2011 09:06 PM  5 years agoPost 2
ke6d

rrApprentice

San Jose, CA

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I would start with a T-Rex 450 preset and set up your machine. As long as your TX/sensor set up are correct (be sure to verify sensor before flight), you are probably OK.

I have set up the Outrage G5 and Rave 450 with Vbar 4.0 before using the 450 profile. Both of them flied on maiden. I would then optimize the parameters after the first flight.

PS: I never had to mess around with those numbers. I level the swash using a swash leveler, check for max/min collective/cyclic, set up the tail/piro optimization direction/sensor direction, then maiden.

My Fleet: T-Rex 700e VBar, T-Rex 600e VBar, Logo 500 VBar, T-Rex 500 VBar, T-Rex 450Pro VBar

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12-01-2011 10:36 PM  5 years agoPost 3
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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It has a 120 degree swash, correct?
Then go back to the 450 preset, use Cyclic RING and Cyclic Gain under Expert Swash to lower throw, use Swash and sensor direction to help you with other.

However, I would 10 times out of 10 rather go directly to 5.2, it flies better and is WAY easier to setup.

But if need be, you still have my videos for v4 on YT on my channel.
http://www.youtube.com/user/FredrikMelin72?feature=mhee

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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12-02-2011 12:58 AM  5 years agoPost 4
cudaboy_71

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sacramento, ca, u.s.

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hey guys, thanks for the replies.

i also got a reply from rainer at the vstabi boards. he linked me to a tool for calculating several parameters in addition to the ones you mentioned.

unfortunately 30+ mph (48+kph for you non-imperial measurement types) winds today. so, no time to test any settings in the air.

and, yes the plan is to move to 5.2 on this one. i just wanted a baseline to compare to my other v4 helis before doing so.

if it ain't broke, break it.

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12-02-2011 02:51 AM  5 years agoPost 5
ke6d

rrApprentice

San Jose, CA

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I would just go to 5.2 directly like MrMel said. You would need to do the set up all over again going from 4.0 to 5.2. The set up for 5.2 is also so much easier and more intuitive than 4.0.

5.2 flight characteristic is also so much better than 4.0 anyway. The only bad thing about 5.2 is that once you convert one of your heli to this new FW, you will want to convert all your helis to 5.2

My Fleet: T-Rex 700e VBar, T-Rex 600e VBar, Logo 500 VBar, T-Rex 500 VBar, T-Rex 450Pro VBar

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12-02-2011 07:00 AM  5 years agoPost 6
Sam2b

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Seattle, WA

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Agreed. Version 5.x will guide you through each step so nicely and ensures you have the correct amount dialed in so you are spot on. There is no sense fussing with 4.0 for the sake of a curious baseline. Otherwise, sure, take the risk of letting your heli beat it self up and spend >$50 in heli repairs, or just spend $50 now and upgrade and be done with it. Simple pimple.

_Sam B_
Team MSH USA * Protos Max * Xpert servos * Cyclone Blades * ProgressiveRC * VoltMagic * Ecalc

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12-03-2011 12:10 AM  5 years agoPost 7
cudaboy_71

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sacramento, ca, u.s.

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thanks for the help guys (and the advice for v5.2...duly noted). but, i'm stubborn. and, i would like to get this flying in v4.

ranier on the vstabi forums gave me a link to this tool:

http://www.vstabi.info/de/node/76

it works fine for me. but, i'm not sure what to do with the values it has returned.

FYI, i have 11.2 degrees of pitch at collective setting 80
22mm for the outer ring measurement
12mm for the inner

running the tool it shows me i have an ideal cyclic gain of 100 (that's comforting)
but, as for what to do with any of the values, i haven't the foggiest idea.

i might assume that i replace the trex 450's default cyclic gain of 91 with 100. but, what to do with cyclic ring? the instructions are cryptic at best.....10% at 70 cyclic ring? what does that mean? add 10% of my cyclic gain to 70? very round-about way of stating it. but, that would give me (70+(100*.1))=80

and, what of the common, collective, and cyclic ratios it generates for me? what do i do with those values?

thanks again for any help.

if it ain't broke, break it.

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12-03-2011 02:51 AM  5 years agoPost 8
Sam2b

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Seattle, WA

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You have all of the version 4.0 information here, so dive in.
http://www.vstabi.info/en/node/140

And doing your due dilligence, look at every one of MrMel's videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Fredrik...eature=mhee#p/u

This calculator is for one purpose (for you): to adjust your physical geometry until the cyclic pitch is 10 degrees WHILE the cyclic ring value is set to a value of 70.
but, as for what to do with any of the values, i haven't the foggiest idea.
The tool said to set your main rotor gain to 100, so do that.
but, what to do with cyclic ring?
The tool said to set your cyclic ring to a value of 70, so do that.
It's not 10%, it is 10 degrees.
You should have 10 degrees of cyclic pitch while at a value of 70.

The ratios are for your reference just like the title says. Right now don't worry about your ratios, especially since your ratios are nearly the same as the reference.

If I'm wrong, well just upgrade to 5.2, else figure it out yourself. Fly it and see what happens. Tune and tweak. This is your journey, so accept the challenge.

_Sam B_
Team MSH USA * Protos Max * Xpert servos * Cyclone Blades * ProgressiveRC * VoltMagic * Ecalc

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12-03-2011 03:11 AM  5 years agoPost 9
cudaboy_71

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sacramento, ca, u.s.

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well, see this is why it's so difficult to understand. you've interpreted it wrong, too.
The tool said to set your main rotor gain to 100, so do that.
it says to set your cyclic gain to 80 in the vbar software and put your TX stick at 100%...you got it backward.

as for the cyclic pitch, i suppose you could have it right. the title says cyclic gain, not cyclic pitch...so, i had no idea that line had anything to do with setting cyclic pitch until you mentioned it. still not sure...but, if you say so.

and, the term 'reference' means it is comparing against the baseline logo model. it is not just 'for my reference'. the whole logo column is the 'reference'. i really think the values the tool calculates are probably important somewhere in the setup.

is there a video somewhere that shows how to set the geometry values manually? every one i've seen--by mikado or otherwise, just says "oh, and btw if you don't have a preset you'll have to set those values manually." i've watched all mr. mel's videos (i think). it's gotten confusing with all the different versions. none that i saw addressed setting up a file from scratch (minus a preset).

if it ain't broke, break it.

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12-03-2011 03:58 AM  5 years agoPost 10
Sam2b

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Seattle, WA

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Ask Rainer at Vstabi support. He's ready and willing if you are. Good luck. Otherwise figure it out.

Regarding the ratio references, that is your mystery to solve. Keep searching for the answer in the software. This is fun.

_Sam B_
Team MSH USA * Protos Max * Xpert servos * Cyclone Blades * ProgressiveRC * VoltMagic * Ecalc

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12-03-2011 02:45 PM  5 years agoPost 11
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

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i agree this is part of the fun. unfortunately ranier may be off for the weekend. no replies in +24 hours :-(

it's just that early on (prior to v5 software--and especially in v3) we were effectively given a long, pointy stick with which to poke around in the dark closet that is the vbar software.

every once in a while you might hit something interesting. but, we were never given a proper inventory of what was in there to begin with. the best we could hope for were cryptic clues in broken english :-)

thank God for brave explorers like Mr. Mel, or i definitely never would have gotten past my first vbar setup.

now, where's my pointy stick…

if it ain't broke, break it.

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12-03-2011 03:34 PM  5 years agoPost 12
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Have you watched my old v4 videos, especially Swashplate part 2, and Geometry of a FBL heli ep 1 & 2

Basically, with some modification, Cyclic Gain in Swash Expert is same as "Cyclic setup step in v5"

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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12-03-2011 04:17 PM  5 years agoPost 13
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

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Mr Mel

thanks. i thought i had seen all your videos. but, i had not seen those Geometry 1&2. i think i had downloaded all your videos to my computer for offline viewing...but, you only had up to #16 at that time.

it is starting to sink in

if it ain't broke, break it.

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