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Thunder Tiger
Raptor E720 › E720; Why isnt there more buzz about it????
11-29-2011 11:37 PM  5 years agoPost 21
chicagoslick

rrApprentice

Indiana, USA

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Battery removeal and installation a breeze. I have a spare battery tray with batteries mounted on it....they click in from the bottom without removing the canopy...

Chicagoslick

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11-30-2011 01:50 AM  5 years agoPost 22
EmmDee

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Seattle, WA

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RC Heli Pilot has a write up on the E720 in the issue that hit my mailbox today. Haven't had a chance to read it yet, but perhaps this will help get things moving a bit for TT.

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12-05-2011 04:32 PM  5 years agoPost 23
scott s.

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Orange, Ca.

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Todd and Gary

Maybe having to pay Todd Bennett and Gary wright has something to do with the price.

I`m sure these guys just aren`t working for free kits.

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12-05-2011 04:41 PM  5 years agoPost 24
Skaluf

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Champaign, IL

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Todd Bennett and Gary Wright are NOT paid to fly these machines. They are part of Team Thunder Tiger America. Both of them could chose to fly any machine they want to, they choose Thunder Tiger.

I'd suggest you take a look at the quality of the E720 before you make comments like that.

Steve

Steve Kaluf
Hobbico

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12-05-2011 05:29 PM  5 years agoPost 25
gwright

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Champaign Il

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[/quote]
Todd and Gary

Maybe having to pay Todd Bennett and Gary wright has something to do with the price.

I`m sure these guys just aren`t working for free kits. [quote]

And you would be wrong. I can only speak for myself but I'm pretty sure Todd's situation is the same. Some manufacturers that have products I like to use provide some support, but I buy a LOT of stuff,.. just ask the local hobby shops.

Gary Wright

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12-05-2011 07:27 PM  5 years agoPost 26
scott s.

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Orange, Ca.

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Well then i stand corrected

Maybe you can explain why the TT is higher priced than and other E90 out there that i can see.

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12-05-2011 07:39 PM  5 years agoPost 27
gwright

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Champaign Il

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Sorry, but I can't explain anything regarding the pricing. I have always wondered, however, why a Ferrari cost more than a hyundai.

Gary Wright

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12-05-2011 07:49 PM  5 years agoPost 28
Zaaaguy72

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MN

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Me too Gary!!!

Team Sanjel!

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12-05-2011 08:09 PM  5 years agoPost 29
scott s.

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Orange, Ca.

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Funny, why is it that Todd B. knew Fassbinder for Ten years did he not pick up the fine light weight quality of Thunder Tiger. I've seen Jeff and Todd at many local events and they talked together all the time. I'm sure Jeff would have given him a kit no questions asked. Ok, your right the Pinto turned into a Porsche right after Ace closed it's doors. And the bird got lighter too and in one fell swoop you too landed in NeverLand. Many happy flights on the pixy dust!

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12-05-2011 08:33 PM  5 years agoPost 30
MrNiceGuy

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Melbourne, FL

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Its cheaper than the TDR, Shape, JR,etc. Its a very nice machine and is priced about right for the quality you are getting. If you want something priced like Align get an Align. The quality won't be as good. But you get what you pay for.

Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery, Today is a GIFT

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12-06-2011 03:40 PM  5 years agoPost 31
Zaaaguy72

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MN

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I just wish it had direct servo to swash.

Team Sanjel!

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12-06-2011 05:20 PM  5 years agoPost 32
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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^+1 That's a deal breaker for me. It looks too old school. Modern, powerful, metal-geared servos don't need bellcranks to protect their gears or any mechanical advantage provided by bellcranks. To me, it is a lazy way around properly designing the servo placement. The other thing that bothers me about the E720 besides the bellcranks and ugly canopy is the tail control rod. I can't believe Thunder Tiger is still using the two piece metal linkage from the original Raptor series. A carbon fiber rod would be dimensionaly more stable, flex less and look much better.

I know the E720 flies fine, but I have no desire to buy it. To me, owning it would be like dating a fat chick who went on a diet. There are still stretch marks all over the body! The E720 needs some cosmetic surgery!

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12-06-2011 05:58 PM  5 years agoPost 33
Zaaaguy72

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MN

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Well that is one way of putting it Rexx!

Team Sanjel!

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12-13-2011 06:18 PM  5 years agoPost 34
IYKIST

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London united​kingdom

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old style bellcranks instead of direct to swash servos links
When did bellcranks become old style, direct links to swash from servo is actually old style used mainly by european heli manufacturers and now being used mainly to save cost and weight.

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12-14-2011 01:20 AM  5 years agoPost 35
worldofmaya

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Graz, Styria -​Austria

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Its cheaper than the TDR, Shape, JR,etc. Its a very nice machine and is priced about right for the quality you are getting.
Basically the kit price was a little bit cheaper here than a TDR or Diabolo... but than spare parts are hard to get and extremely expensive. One of the carbon side frame (one of the two) costs 106 Euro [143US$]. You can get both carbon frame parts of one side for less than 60 Euros from Henseleit... I guess TT uses a "special" carbon which makes these parts that expensive...
Just try to get a main gear... seams like the only way is to contact TT to get one.
When did bellcranks become old style, direct links to swash from servo is actually old style used mainly by european heli manufacturers and now being used mainly to save cost and weight.
Interesting theory... but I guess you're right that this is a European (maybe German area) preference. I would say the beauty of direct swash instead of PP is its simplicity, especially with machines like Hensleits TDR or Minicopter Diabolo this paradigm is base of the design. Less is beautiful...
I really like the way my e720 flies, but spare part availability and price doesn't make it my primary smack machine.
-klaus

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12-14-2011 12:44 PM  5 years agoPost 36
gwright

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Champaign Il

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As for the push/pull bellcranks, I'm kind of on the fence. I like the simplicity of direct, but I hate interactions and differential movement created by short servo arms. I can only think that Taya did this to first remove some of the load from the servo output shaft and bearings that you see in direct connections (not sure that matters with modern servos, but geometrically it's better), and more importantly to drastically minimize the differential and interactions created by the differential movements when you're anywhere but in the center of throw. With little short servo arms in a direct connect fashion, you'll have a certain amount of cyclic throw when you are at center travel on collective (zero pitch on most 3D setups). Whenever you move away from center travel, the cyclic is reduced slightly, along with the differential movement created by the arc,..in other words you go from 0 to plus 10 degrees of pitch and where you had say +8/-8 cyclic at zero you may have only +6/-6 when at 10 degrees of pitch, plus the rear servo would pull down more than the front servos will push up so there is also a reduction in collective in that scenario. The very long bellcranks greatly reduce this. The flybarless controller can compensate for the cyclic but not for the collective. He basically gave the machine what would be 2 or 3 inch servo arms to drastically reduce interractions and differential (at work, no machine in front of me so can't measure but they are reealy long<G>.With the reduction in ratio, however, the torque loads on the servo are not increased, it just lengthens one lever to reduce the arc and thus the differential while decreasing the torque load on the servo a proportional amount with the ratio on the push/pull.

Gary Wright

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12-14-2011 01:03 PM  5 years agoPost 37
MrNiceGuy

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Melbourne, FL

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Its cheaper than the TDR, Shape, JR,etc. Its a very nice machine and is priced about right for the quality you are getting.
Basically the kit price was a little bit cheaper here than a TDR or Diabolo... but than spare parts are hard to get and extremely expensive. One of the carbon side frame (one of the two) costs 106 Euro [143US$]. You can get both carbon frame parts of one side for less than 60 Euros from Henseleit... I guess TT uses a "special" carbon which makes these parts that expensive...
Just try to get a main gear... seams like the only way is to contact TT to get one.
Pricing must be different outside of US. TDR is around $400 more than the G4. That's a considerable difference in my book. This might be because of exchange rates and such though.

Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery, Today is a GIFT

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12-15-2011 08:43 AM  5 years agoPost 38
helicraze

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Victoria - Australia

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I think europe must pay a lot of taxes on top of it

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12-15-2011 01:16 PM  5 years agoPost 39
synodontis

rrKey Veteran

United Kingdom

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I can only think that Taya did this to first remove some of the load from the servo output shaft and bearings that you see in direct connections (not sure that matters with modern servos, but geometrically it's better), and more importantly to drastically minimize the differential and interactions created by the differential movements when you're anywhere but in the center of throw. With little short servo arms in a direct connect fashion, you'll have a certain amount of cyclic throw when you are at center travel on collective (zero pitch on most 3D setups). Whenever you move away from center travel, the cyclic is reduced slightly, along with the differential movement created by the arc,..in other words you go from 0 to plus 10 degrees of pitch and where you had say +8/-8 cyclic at zero you may have only +6/-6 when at 10 degrees of pitch, plus the rear servo would pull down more than the front servos will push up so there is also a reduction in collective in that scenario. The very long bellcranks greatly reduce this.
this is not quite correct. "interaction" can be taken out completely if you know about setup and can explicitly program the servos etc . . . what you are confusing it is with "valid" range of the servo movements. Take the SWM setup used by Hirobo, Trex, JR (on 120) etc. . . the size of swash determines the size of the bell cranks. In effect the size of the crank determines the collective range of the swash, but it depends on what you want to do. It is the job of the CCPM software to compensate for the different setups, but it can't cover all cases. Of course using small bell cranks with a large swash will only give you a very tight collective range because at extremes there's not enough thrown to move the cyclics.

Taya using large bell cranks in relation to swash introduces other problems, most of it to do with precision and software. But we can only discuss all this collective, cyclics business when in relation to the ratios on the head and how it response to the collective and cyclic range of the swash being controlled.

I think Taya made a good choice, rather it was SWM (because the Futaba software favours SWM, this can be changed with later software), the only reason why I won't have this machine in my collection is because:

1) I don't like the looks of the canopy

2) don't like the looks of the head

that's it. He could have made the head a whole lot prettier like the Vibe SG's. I'm sure it flies nice, just doesn't look nice for me. I know, I'm so vain.

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12-15-2011 03:33 PM  5 years agoPost 40
gwright

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Champaign Il

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Actually I would disagree. It is correct that shorter bellcranks introduce more interaction when they move away from center,..but I totally agree with you that it can be eliminated with programming, that just wasn't the point. I generally like things to be as geometrically correct as possible, and not rely on electronics to fix things that shouldn't be "broken" in the first place <G>. having control system geometries correct and not relying on electronics to cover up the issues is somewhat akin to the argument of adjusting a glow motor and curves correctly versus using a governer,.. when you should actually do both. Setup curves and mixture to get it working as well as possible then let the governer smooth out the last couple percent. With a really well tuned engine and curves you can turn the governer on and off and you may not even know it. I like mechanics setup right so electronics don't have to mask problems. We are, however, dealing with rotary motion so it can't be perfect but I think it best to make it as geometrically as good as possible. Something else with longer arms,.. the affects of any hysteris in the system is also minimized with longer arms (and larger swashplate).

Gary Wright

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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
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Thunder Tiger
Raptor E720 › E720; Why isnt there more buzz about it????
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