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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Leaking Hatori SB-12-R-2 - newly fitted
12-17-2011 10:26 AM  5 years agoPost 101
larrybtoys

rrNovice

Garden City, Michigan-USA

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Thanks. No worries about the extra emails. I'm glad I can help. I love this crazy hobby... I didn't think I could post the name. I will have plenty of the high temp, double thick Zenoah and Hatori gaskets next week. As long as surfaces are clean, smooth and mating together properly they should work great. I tiny layer of sealing material along with the gasket doesn't hurt either. We need the laser power turned way up and the speed way down just to cut them out using this material. The material is very strong. The reason exhaust gaskets often fail is because they have a tiny leak right from the get-go. When the hot exhaust gas (which will always have some unburned fuel in it) meets the outside air it ignites. It's this process that burns the gaskets. Take care....

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12-17-2011 01:44 PM  5 years agoPost 102
Malc1

rrKey Veteran

EVESHAM,UK

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Just back in from the field - a bit windy but managed to get 1hr 30mins of actual flying time in.

I slightly tightened the fixing bolts a few times after warming the engine and muffler up.

At the moment not a single leak of any sort.

I have used copper RTV on this BTW.

Engine was running pretty sweet with the governer still off for now but probably needs a slight adjustment somewhere as in ID2 and flying, the engine seemed to bog a bit when putting the power back on.

It sounds and feels OK when doing a full power climbout though.

Maybe the curves are still not quite right.

I now need to get the two sideways securing bolts in now and try it again.

Minicopter Diabolo - Kosmik200,Pyro750-56
SpectraG + G26 3D Max

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12-29-2011 11:43 AM  5 years agoPost 103
Azalin

rrApprentice

Ankara-Turkey

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I just received the new gaskets. They look good.

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12-29-2011 12:46 PM  5 years agoPost 104
Malc1

rrKey Veteran

EVESHAM,UK

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See what you think.

I've not tried mine again since last posting with Christmas and the windy weather but will be back out there again soon.

I really need to get the curves in ID1 and ID2 completely sorted out before getting the governer back on and then I can get on with stripping the heli down, adding the second Jewel regulator and getting the flybarless conversion done.

Got that bogging in ID2 when flying and applying full pitch to look at.

Seems like the CGY750 and the other parts have been stuck on the work bench for ever.

Don't forget the RTV - As mentioned I've used the Copper stuff.

Minicopter Diabolo - Kosmik200,Pyro750-56
SpectraG + G26 3D Max

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12-29-2011 12:48 PM  5 years agoPost 105
Azalin

rrApprentice

Ankara-Turkey

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Right. I'll let you know soon enough.

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12-30-2011 09:50 AM  5 years agoPost 106
Azalin

rrApprentice

Ankara-Turkey

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Perfect! I stripped the metal plate. Now i need a new one or repair with helical.

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12-30-2011 03:37 PM  5 years agoPost 107
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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For the Hatori???

I stripped the metal plate. Now i need a new one or repair with helical.
How in the heck did you do that? That plate is steel. I can understand the engine side which is aluminum, but the steel plate? You must tighten like a gorilla!!

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 H280, 4118 flts
Raptor 90 H300, 274 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 27 3DMax, 1418 flts
Whiplash V2 H300, 174 flts

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12-30-2011 03:43 PM  5 years agoPost 108
shawmcky

rrElite Veteran

Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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Its the 6 foot bar on the hex wrench that usually does it

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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12-30-2011 03:55 PM  5 years agoPost 109
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Oh by the way...

In terms of my way of reporting the good or the bad, 'it is what it is' disclosure, I had to reseal my hatori muffler last night as it didn't last forever. Sprung a small leak while I was in FL but I just left it until I got home. It did last a couple of months or about 75 flights before having to be re-addressed.

I didn't remove the steel plate, just tightened that a bit (one screw barely moved the other didn't) and made another gasket for the plate to muffler and put that on with red RTV. Hopefully the leak was from this joint, will test fly today otherwise I need to take the whole thing off again and redo the engine to plate seal if its leaking from that side.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 H280, 4118 flts
Raptor 90 H300, 274 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 27 3DMax, 1418 flts
Whiplash V2 H300, 174 flts

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12-30-2011 06:34 PM  5 years agoPost 110
Malc1

rrKey Veteran

EVESHAM,UK

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That's a bit unlucky - you must have really put some force into it.

I did the engine side though and had to helicoil it

Minicopter Diabolo - Kosmik200,Pyro750-56
SpectraG + G26 3D Max

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12-30-2011 06:59 PM  5 years agoPost 111
Azalin

rrApprentice

Ankara-Turkey

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I guess i can't control my power.

BTW the muffler i am using is an RJX. Not a Hatory. The steel plate doesn't seem that strong. Maybe its not steel. Iron?

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12-30-2011 08:25 PM  5 years agoPost 112
payne1967

rrElite Veteran

uk

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popeye its all the spinach you've been eating over xmas

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12-30-2011 11:15 PM  5 years agoPost 113
Malc1

rrKey Veteran

EVESHAM,UK

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Does the gasket fit then?

The dimensions were for the Hatori.

Minicopter Diabolo - Kosmik200,Pyro750-56
SpectraG + G26 3D Max

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12-30-2011 11:44 PM  5 years agoPost 114
fastflyer20

rrKey Veteran

N. Tonawanda, NY

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My RJX metal plate was not flat from the factory, I could not keep it tight and it kept leaking. I took it to work and used the surface grinder to grind each side extremely flat. I now use a bit of copper RTV and have minimal leaks.

Technically, emery cloth and a flat surface will do it, but mine was out by .012" at the extremes per side, thats a lot of emery cloth! It sounds like some of you have flat mating surfaces and some don't. Having a machine shop surface grind both surfaces should be pretty cheap. If you do it, ask them to keep track of how much they have to grind off for a full clean up of the gasket surface.

While I did not need to do it on th RJX, a machine shop can mill the aluminum surfaces flat if it is needed. I have done this to a few nitro engines and mufflers, fixing the leak every time.

You can use a precision scale on edge held flat to the surface, hold the assembly up to a light to see if you have an uneven gap on the sealing surface. Check in a few areas, rotate 90 degrees and check again. If you don't have very flat sealing surfaces it is tough to keep them sealed.

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12-31-2011 03:02 AM  5 years agoPost 115
larrybtoys

rrNovice

Garden City, Michigan-USA

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It is very important to have FLAT surfaces even with a good quality gasket. Most of the times I see gasket failures it's due to poorly cleaned or uneven surfaces.

LBT

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01-14-2012 03:54 PM  5 years agoPost 116
Malc1

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EVESHAM,UK

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A bit annoying but it looks like the muffler has got to come off again

Just put in about an hour of continuous flying time and have noticed a small leak again coming from the inner engine block to metal plate join.

Thing is - this gasket is not one of the ones I had made up - its a standard Zenoah one which has RTV on it.

Thought I could get away with it

The made up gasket between the metal plate and the muffler is still fine.

So I'll change the pair this time use RTV and go again.

Shame as the engine has been running absolutely spot on today.

Had a great time and I am nearly there with getting those curves sorted in Id1 and id2 before I switch the governer back on.

Minicopter Diabolo - Kosmik200,Pyro750-56
SpectraG + G26 3D Max

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01-14-2012 04:04 PM  5 years agoPost 117
Azalin

rrApprentice

Ankara-Turkey

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Malc

Use black RTV instead red. The red one can hold up to 300 degrees and the black can up to 1200 degrees. I am using it. No problems so far.

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01-14-2012 04:09 PM  5 years agoPost 118
Malc1

rrKey Veteran

EVESHAM,UK

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I'm actually using Copper RTV which I thought was rated even higher than the Red stuff.

I have got Copper,Red and Black here.

Maybe the inner bolts have just come slightly loose.

Minicopter Diabolo - Kosmik200,Pyro750-56
SpectraG + G26 3D Max

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01-14-2012 04:38 PM  5 years agoPost 119
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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You can try this Malc

Put on the inner plate with the stock gasket and some rtv, waiting the 45 min to hour to set before tightening all the way.

Put on the outer muffler with no gasket just temporary. Go fly it for a few minutes then take off the muffler while hopt right after landing and tighten the inner bolts some. I used a screwdervier through the tailpipe and the allen driver to carry it off the model hot and put it on the bench. When it cools put the muffler back on and repeat after 2 to 3 flights the inner bolts won't move any more.

Now go home and install the outer muffler with the right gasket and rtv. You'll have a better chance at it that way to work.

Too bad its so complicated to get a good seal on the two piece muffler. Mine actually had to come off my heli because believe it or not I lost power with the motor and apparently the muffler got plugged up. I have to clean it with some solution and water pressure to get rid of the carbon. Apparently this muffler's tailpipe is marginal in size any buildup inside kills the power.

On the lighter side of things, I put on my older side mount zimmerman, two bolts, rtv, and go fly. No leaks nothing getting loose I wish all mufflers were like that.

The zimmerman's weakness is that it cracks over time, but I sent mine to a pro welder who beefed it up for me so with that its a great muffler.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 H280, 4118 flts
Raptor 90 H300, 274 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 27 3DMax, 1418 flts
Whiplash V2 H300, 174 flts

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01-14-2012 05:59 PM  5 years agoPost 120
Malc1

rrKey Veteran

EVESHAM,UK

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OK Raja sounds like a plan.

I haven't touched the heli to check since putting it away earlier but I'm pretty sure that it will be those inner bolts that have come loose a bit.

Swapping the muffler over from my Zimmerman rear mount has turned out to be a bit of a nightmare - you really do need loads of patience

Thing is, my rear mount didn't leak after I had the custom coupler machined for me but the tail is so much better with the pipe I have on now.

As I said earlier,today the motor was again running silky smooth and no vibs of any sort getting to the tail.

Slighty tweeked the curves to get rid of that bit off bog I was getting when coming out of level fight to a climb out.
Even just on the throttle curves with the governer off I was loving it!
Didn't have anyone down the field with me today so I still need to tacho the head speeds to finish setting it up.

I did take four helis down the field with me this morning and ended up being down there for five hours.

The weather was a great here today - a bit cold but calm and sunny.

Makes a change.

Minicopter Diabolo - Kosmik200,Pyro750-56
SpectraG + G26 3D Max

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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Leaking Hatori SB-12-R-2 - newly fitted
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