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Mikado
Other › Logo600SE can't get consistent headspeed
08-05-2011 11:08 PM  6 years agoPost 1
Reesy

rrKey Veteran

In the doghouse ... Nottingham UK

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Hi guys
got a new 600SE using:
some old rap90 690 blades
spektrum
normal Vbar5.1
3x fut BLS cyclic 1x fut BLS tail
Jive 80HV
Scorp 5024-440kv (the one advertised as designed for 600SE)
11T
10S and 12S lipo's

No matter what I do I cannot get it to even hover with a consistent HS it will run turbine like for 5-10 secs then motor sound "sags" momentarily then recovers making the tail kick and generally act like gain is too high.

I've tried 10S @ 80%-95% throttle mode 4 and mode 11
I'm now on 12S and tried 75% and 80% throttle mode 4 and 11

One flight seemed better and it seems to get better after a minute or so like somethings bedding in.

MiniV is setup as per MrMel vids but values set at default (not tried his fancy tail settings yet) as shown on miniV new setup page

My 500SE flies sweet as a nut and I've been flying logo's since the 10 came out with a big old bunch of nicads.

I know how to program a jazz etc.

Only thing I haven't done is fit the anti static jobbie and mucked about with the tail gain.

It does seem quite noisy almost a whine unlike my 500 but I'm not sure what to expect with a 90 size leccy.

I'm pulling 2.4kw on gentle climbouts motor feels sl hot jive and batts stone cold.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Paul

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08-05-2011 11:16 PM  6 years agoPost 2
johnnie eagle

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Florham Park, NJ 07932

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Anti static

Thie first thing I would do is put the anti static kit on and try that. I know it sounds nuts that a little thing like that is needed, but it really works, the VBAR is very susceptible to static.

Team Minicopter - Peak Aircraft, Team Kontronik USA

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08-05-2011 11:41 PM  6 years agoPost 3
gravydrive

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Jacksonville, FL

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Wow, what's your headspeed at 80% on 12S?

Murphy's Law Denier

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08-06-2011 12:57 AM  6 years agoPost 4
Steff Giguere

rrProfessor

St-Eustache, Quebec, Canada

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What does V-Bar flight log say?

Team Synergy, Rail blades, Team Scorpion, V-Team

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08-06-2011 02:03 AM  6 years agoPost 5
mmc205

rrElite Veteran

PA - USA

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i'd check your pwm and timing, but i'd guess your batteries are not in good shape, or you have a bad solder joint between your batteries and speed controller, or between your speed controller and motor. if your running several different batteries with the same results, then probably between motor and esc (unless your batteries are all pretty old. 85% should yield about 1950 rpm, but if your batteries are beat, it will sag quite a bit under load due to voltage drop. What is the manufacturer, age, and IR of your lipos?

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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08-06-2011 01:00 PM  6 years agoPost 6
Reesy

rrKey Veteran

In the doghouse ... Nottingham UK

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Many thanks for the replies guys

Everything is brand spanking new, batts cycled and checked.

11T pinion so HS around 1750 with 440kv motor
(I originally thought to use a 540kv out of my MP just to do the initial dialing in hence the 11T then found motor wouldn't fit 25mm v 30mm hole width)

Will try anti-static makes sense.

Despite my best efforts my soldering is cr$p at the best of times so will resolder connectors.

Never thought to check flight log only just upgraded from 4.0 on all my vbars.

Almost wondered if govenor was active and fighting the jive will double check tho it says it's inactive.

Thanks again will report back.

Paul

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08-06-2011 06:40 PM  6 years agoPost 7
gravydrive

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Jacksonville, FL

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Most of the trouble people have with soldering comes from crappy soldering irons. Do yourself a favor and get a quality set with a separate power supply and adjustable tip temperature, it will do wonders!

Murphy's Law Denier

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08-06-2011 08:00 PM  6 years agoPost 8
KC

rrElite Veteran

WA

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could be a solder joint but sounds it is doing the same thing mine did when I used both the Jive master and slave cables with a receiver that refused to work right with both cables.

if you're still having the problem after grounding it, try unplugging the slave cable....are you using both cables?

the master cable can supply more than enough juice it will be ok

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08-09-2011 01:00 PM  6 years agoPost 9
madmcphil

rrApprentice

Portsmouth, UK

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Your headspeeds sound wrong on 12S

You should be around this

12S
Throttle 65%: 1751
Throttle 70%: 1804
Throttle 75%: 1857
Throttle 80%: 1910
Throttle 85%: 1963
Throttle 90%: 2016

10S
Throttle 65%: 1459
Throttle 70%: 1503
Throttle 75%: 1547
Throttle 80%: 1591
Throttle 85%: 1635
Throttle 90%: 1680

I would be looking at taching the head. Definitely use anti static...
Reset your Kontronic Jive and set it up again. Use mode 4 or 11 as you have been.

When you next charge... keep a very close eye on all the cells. Its not unheard of that a cell goes bad even on a new pack. This would cause very similar effects that you describe. Might even be just poor wiring in the pack. I had a pack that if I twisted the output wires down or the balancing port down...my pack voltage would increase...by 10%.

good luck in your findings

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08-15-2011 11:51 AM  6 years agoPost 10
Reesy

rrKey Veteran

In the doghouse ... Nottingham UK

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Hello chaps

Thanks for all the input, been through the following:

1. Did the grounding, checked various threads to make sure I had it right, sanded off to get good contact etc.

2. Bought a shiny new 75w Soldering iron and resoldered all the joints.

3. re-programmed the Jive (again)

4. Checked the batts (don't think it's that as it's the same on 12S or 10S which are two relatively new but different sets.

5. lowered the tail gain considerably. (from 90 rec for 600 down to 80 only seemed to make it worse)

Event log shows nothing but a string of "good health message 10sec"

Whereas before I did the above mods it was showing a string of "good health" interspersed with the odd "Sensor data checksum error" allthough the latest flight only lasted a very short time as I knew I hadn't solved the underlying problem.

---------------------------------------

Exactly the same thing is happening runs almost like a nitro that's way too rich HS up and down and tail kicking all over the place.

I was wondering if I just have a bad/incompatible motor allthough I notice laughinstill is running pretty much the same setup on his new thread.

Looks like a complete strip down and rebuild as currently it's pretty much unflyable.

Ho hum

Thanks for the input again I'll keep you posted if I find out whats happening.

Was thinking of giving up with this motor and getting the "standard mikado based 500kv scorp" or even a pyro?

Paul

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08-15-2011 03:53 PM  6 years agoPost 11
novalovr66

rrNovice

Maysville, NC - USA

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Motor

I am running the 5025-440 also and have no issues with it at all. Do you think that the issue could be with the ESC? Whats the temp on both after a good hover if you can keep it up that long?

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08-15-2011 05:12 PM  6 years agoPost 12
Reesy

rrKey Veteran

In the doghouse ... Nottingham UK

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Well chaps time to eat humble pie.

Spent the last few weeks wracking my singular brain cell without success, read back through all the suggestions and found a really old pair of 6S from my TREX500 flop about in the frames etc but guess what?

Flies smooth as silk.

Just goes to show, allthough my £200 Far East all singing all dancing charger would charge my new batts (VOLTZ BTW) allthough to be fair it took a while.

when I tried them on my trusty old TP2010 it wouldn't touch them.

Many thanks for all the input and sorry to have made such a dumb mistake.

PS is there any kind of warranty on VOLTZ ?? (Got them from Midland)

Paul

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08-16-2011 10:38 PM  6 years agoPost 13
Reesy

rrKey Veteran

In the doghouse ... Nottingham UK

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Just a quick update what is the acceptable range of voltages for a 6S lipo pack?

I wasn't prepared to just give up on this so went and got myself all the leads etc to connect to both my old TP 1010C charger and newer icharger 208B

Both show each pack to be within 0.08V (highest 4.20V lowest 4.12V) and IR's are in the range 4 through to 9 max

Both packs pretty much identical, gently twisting and distorting them has no effect on the above.

Am I expecting too much from these packs or are those acceptable figures? they've now been cycled maybe 6 - 8 times.

Paul

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