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HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › So this is what the problem is....Abortion...
04-08-2011 12:40 PM  6 years agoPost 1
cvdiver

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Orlando, Fl

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It’s Not Really About Spending
Published: April 7, 2011

If the federal government shuts down at midnight on Friday — which seems likely unless negotiations take a sudden turn toward rationality — it will not be because of disagreements over spending. It will be because Republicans are refusing to budge on these ideological demands:

• No federal financing for Planned Parenthood because it performs abortions. Instead, state administration of federal family planning funds, which means that Republican governors and legislatures will not spend them.

• No local financing for abortion services in the District of Columbia.

• No foreign aid to countries that might use the money for abortion or family planning. And no aid to the United Nations Population Fund, which supports family-planning services.

• No regulation of greenhouse gases by the Environmental Protection Agency.

• No funds for health care reform or the new consumer protection bureau established in the wake of the financial collapse.

Abortion. Environmental protection. Health care. Nothing to do with jobs or the economy; instead, all the hoary greatest hits of the Republican Party, only this time it has the power to wreak national havoc: furloughing 800,000 federal workers, suspending paychecks for soldiers and punishing millions of Americans who will have to wait for tax refunds, Social Security applications, small-business loans, and even most city services in Washington. The damage to a brittle economy will be substantial.

Democrats have already gone much too far in giving in to the House demands for spending cuts. The $33 billion that they have agreed to cut will pull an enormous amount of money from the economy at exactly the wrong time, and will damage dozens of vital programs.

But it turns out that all those excessive cuts they volunteered were worth far less to the Republicans than the policy riders that are the real holdup to a deal. After President Obama appeared on television late Wednesday night to urge the two sides to keep talking, negotiators say, the issue of the spending cuts barely even came up. All the talk was about the abortion demands and the other issues.

Democrats in the White House and the Senate say they will not give in to this policy extortion, and we hope they do not weaken. These issues have no place in a stopgap spending bill a few minutes from midnight.

A measure to prohibit the Environmental Protection Agency from regulating greenhouse gas emissions came up for a Senate vote on Wednesday and failed. If Republicans want to have yet another legislative debate about abortion and family planning, let them try to pass a separate bill containing their restrictions. But that bill would fail, too, and they know it, so they have chosen extortion.

The lack of seriousness in the House is reflected in the taunting bill it passed on Thursday to keep the government open for another week at an absurdly high cost of $12 billion in cuts and the ban on District of Columbia abortion financing. The Senate and the White House said it was a nonstarter. Many of the same House members who earlier had said they would refuse to approve another short-term spending bill voted for this one, clearly hoping they could use its inevitable failure in the Senate to blame the Democrats for the shutdown. What could be more cynical?

The public is not going to be fooled once it sees what the Republicans, pushed by Tea Party members, were really holding out for. There are a few hours left to stop this dangerous game, and for the Republicans to start doing their job, which, if they’ve forgotten, is to serve the American people.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/o...1.html?_r=1&hpw

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04-08-2011 01:31 PM  6 years agoPost 2
kurtk

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There are a few hours left to stop this dangerous game, and for the Republicans to start doing their job
LOL!!! Do their job?! Like the Democrats, who were required to produce a budget, and failed to do so with majorities across the board? There would be NO NEED for Continuing Resolutions in the first place if the Democrats had DONE THEIR JOBS.

Any government shutdown is 100% the fault of Democrats. END OF STORY.

That entire article is nothing more than idiotic, Keynesian, baby killing, tree hugging, socialist, elitist, liberal rubbish. Isn't a significant portion of the job description for a representative to represent their constituents? This article seems to imply that Republicans should just shut up and do whatever the Democrats want after winning a majority. Yet, when Democrats win, they go nuts ramming through legislation they haven't even read...

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04-08-2011 02:22 PM  6 years agoPost 3
dilberteinstein

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Surely that article is sarcastic. Nobody could be that stupid to actually write that.

If the looney tune that wrote that is serious, then the point could be made that Obama and his band of Democrats are willing to shut down the government because of:

Planned Parenthood funding (I want to be taxed for this?)

No local financing for abortion services in the District of Columbia. (why would there be no local funding, don't they mean federal?)

No abortion funding to foreign countries (I want to be taxed for this again?)

Stop funding of fake EPA greenhouse gases regulation.

Stop funding of healthcare (that way so many of Obama's cronies won't have apply for waivers for obamacare).

At least Obama had enough courage to go against the idiot who shut down Gitmo...oh wait, that was himself.

90% of life is "showing up"

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04-08-2011 02:32 PM  6 years agoPost 4
Heliguychris

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Perth, West Australia

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Imagine that you had an average monthly income of about $170 balanced against average monthly expenses of about $940–and that you were more than $14,000 in debt.
Then imagine that as of today, you had only $58.60 in cash left in your bank account and $130.50 left on your line of credit.
Now multiply these numbers by 1 billion and you will have the up-to-date financial situation of the U.S. government.

According to the Daily Treasury Statement released by the U.S. Treasury...

That NYT link is a joke.^ theres your issue right there^

Licensed (CASA) UAV operator certificate holder 1-YFOF5-01 www.helicamaerial.com.au

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04-08-2011 03:28 PM  6 years agoPost 5
PsychoZ

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Any government shutdown is 100% the fault of Democrats. END OF STORY.
It is never one sided, it takes both sides to make something like this happen. To make that type of statement shows how one sided you are, you can not blame everything on one party. But if that is how you feel, that is your right to feel that way. But it is statements like that, that will continue to keep the parties from working together because all you are doing is pointing a finger. And remember when you point a finger there are three fingers pointing back at you.

Tea Parties are for little girls with imaginary friends

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04-08-2011 03:49 PM  6 years agoPost 6
Dennis (RIP)

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It is never one sided, it takes both sides to make something like this happen. To make that type of statement shows how one sided you are, you can not blame everything on one party.
Last October when the Dems had a majority in both the house and the senate, along with a Dem president, failed to pass a 2011 budget. They were to busy spending trillions of tax dollars. That spending of trillions of tax dollars we do not have is the only excuse they have for not making the budget happen because thats all that was actually happening.

That does put the fault right back on the Dems.
But it is statements like that, that will continue to keep the parties from working together because all you are doing is pointing a finger.
Yes, and a well deserved one. Go back in history and let us know if you find anytime that a budget was not passed for a fiscal year. If you do find that did happen, it will definatley be rare and the exception and not the rule.

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04-08-2011 04:00 PM  6 years agoPost 7
InvertedDude

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..

..

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04-08-2011 04:11 PM  6 years agoPost 8
kurtk

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North Carolina

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Any government shutdown is 100% the fault of Democrats. END OF STORY.
It is never one sided, it takes both sides to make something like this happen.
Did you read the paragraph before that statement? Please enlighten me as to exactly what portion of the Democrats' failure to uphold their responsibilities and produce a budget is the Republicans' fault.

Remember, they were able to pass that monstrosity, Obamacare, using their majorities, every trick in the book, and some tricks that were not in the book. And yet they somehow failed to create a budget for the federal government. Why is that?

The budget was due in Oct 2010 for the 2011 fiscal year, right? When they had majorities in the house and senate, and the oval office. I don't think the Republicans could have stopped them from passing a budget if they wanted. What am I missing here?

I suspect the reason for shirking their budgetary duty is political. Do you have a better explanation?

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "Any" in that sentence. Maybe that was confusing. I am not referring to any shutdown and any time. I am simply saying any shutdown that happens as a result of the lack of a 2011 budget rests on the shoulders of those with a D after their name.

Are you absolutely sure there are no absolutes?

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04-08-2011 04:57 PM  6 years agoPost 9
cvdiver

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Orlando, Fl

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Ok, so it's not hard to go about pointing blame. Let's blame Reagan for raising taxes that maybe started some of this mess. How about blaming Bush I for some of it too. While your at it, Clinton got a blowjob from some skank (dare you argue her skankness, she kept a damn dress with his goo on it!), there's got to be some blame in there too. Oh yeah, then we have Bush II, He can be blamed for any number of ills. Mind you, I am not absolving the various senators and congressmen who have participated in creating this mess. They are scum of the highest order as well. But let's be real about something here, Pelosi isn't in power at the moment, this mess is squarely in the hands of Boehner and his group. Notice, I am not placing blame on him and the republicans. I am saying that we need to focus on actual BUDGETARY issues, not these stupid hot button issues. It's everyones' fault at the moment. Those of you that fail to see or understand that the current budget problem is EVERYONE'S problem are just closed minded and no amount of actual rational thought will ever sway you. You just refuse to be able to learn anything, you know it all.
If you want to talk about the budget, talk about the budget. Don't throw these other issues into the mix.

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04-08-2011 04:59 PM  6 years agoPost 10
cvdiver

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Orlando, Fl

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http://historymusings.wordpress.com...hutdown-budget/
Yes, and a well deserved one. Go back in history and let us know if you find anytime that a budget was not passed for a fiscal year. If you do find that did happen, it will definatley be rare and the exception and not the rule.
Maybe not as rare as you think Dennis....

Budget Showdown 2011: Q & A – How Many Times in US History has the Government Shutdown Over the Budget?
Posted on April 8, 2011 by bonniekaryn| Leave a comment
HISTORY Q & A:
HOW MANY TIMES IN US HISTORY HAS THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN OVER THE BUDGET?
By Bonnie K. Goodman
Ms. Goodman is the Editor of History Musings. She has a BA in History & Art History & a Masters in Library and Information Studies from McGill University, and has done graduate work in history at Concordia University.

With just under a day left for negotiations before the government will shutdown and despite working non-stop this week Congressional Republicans and Democrats have still not come to an agreement for the 2011 Budget. Wednesday and Thursday President Obama kept meeting with House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) at the White House, declaring some progress, still no agreement has been made. Although Obama opposes and threatened to veto the measure Speaker Boehner and Republicans are working on a week extension to prevent the shutdown on midnight Saturday. At issue is the 7 million difference between the Democrats proposed 33 million and the Republicans 40 million in spending cuts. The shutdown would affect 800,000 federal workers out of 2 million workers, and will also affect all aspects of the government at a time when the fragile economy is just starting to recover.

The government’s budget has been at the center of all previous shutdowns, and the 2011 budget battle is not different. A budget needs to be passed by Congress and signed by the President prior to the commence of the new fiscal year on October 1, or continuing resolutions need to be passed to keep the government operating at the prior year’s fiscal spending limits. However, if Congress fails to pass a budget or resolution, or the President vetoes or does not sign the resolution; resulting in a government shutdown as there are no funds allocations to operate government. The last and longest government shutdown in American history was when Democrat Bill Clinton was President and Newt Gingrich was the Speaker of the Republican Congress in November 1995 and in December 1995 through to January 1996. The clash over the 1996 budget caused a government shutdown for a total of 21 days. High partisanship affected the budget negotiation process resulting in the shutdown.

RONALD REAGAN
Prior to the Reagan Administration, however, there was never a large enough clash over spending or the budget to cause a government shutdown. Throughout the 1970s, various agencies have had to shutdown because of budget issues, but never was there a cross government shutdown. The introduction of Keynesian supply-side economics to the Federal government, differing economic philosophies regarding spending, and an increase of partisanship between Democrats and Republicans accounted for the succession of government shutdowns throughout the 1980s. During the Reagan administration, the government spent the most time on the brink of government closures. After short closure in 1981, 1984 and 1986, the government again faced similar situations in 1985 and 1987, however, both those times closures were averted.

Nov. 23, 1981: The spending feud between the Republican President Reagan and the Democratic Congress led to the first shutdown. Reagan refused to sign Congress’s continuing resolution in the morning. Leading to a shutdown in the government for the afternoon, forcing 400,000 of the 2.1 million federal employees home. Later the same day Reagan signed a revised version of the continuing resolution, ending the shutdown with work resuming the next morning.
Oct. 4 1984: The second occurrence of a shutdown in US history and Reagan’s presidency occurred when Congress failed to pass a stopgap money bill, when a new budget was not passed for the new fiscal year. On October 4th 500,000 civil servants out of the 2.9 million civil servants where sent home from their jobs; leading to a partial shutdown. An emergency spending bill passed, which Reagan signed, and normal government operations continued the next morning. Both times the shutdowns were limited in their implications and impacts.
Oct. 17, 1986: For the third time in the Reagan Presidency, the Democratic Congress and presidency’s inability to agree on a new fiscal budget led to another half day furlough. Congress had also failed to come to an agreement and pass a spending bill. At Midday 500,000 non-essential federal employees were forced home. An emergency spending bill passed, returning employees the next day to work.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH
All previous government shutdowns lasted a half of day, in 1990 that changed under Reagan’s successor and former Vice President, and then President George H.W. Bush when the government experienced its longest shutdown. In October 1990 the government was shut down a total of three days, because of Democratic Congress and the Republican President could not agree on a budget for 1991. As signs of economic problems were visible on the horizon, the battle was centered on the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Act to balance the budget. Democrats wanted to increase taxes on the nation’s richest to reduce the ballooning deficit, but in the 1988 campaign Bush had promise he would not increase any taxes across the board. Bush threatened to veto any budget that Congress presented to him that included a tax increase.

Oct. 6, 1990: President Bush made good on his veto threat; with the budget vetoed and without a continuing resolution agreed upon, the government was shut down throughout the three day Columbus Day weekend. Both the President and Congress wanted to limit the negative impact of a shutdown, and they agreed the new budget would not include any surtax or tax increases. Over the weekend President Bush then signed a continuance, and government opened on Tuesday morning. The closure during the holiday weekend limited the impact a three day closure would had on running the government, had it been closed for three days during the week. Bush was however, was forced to agree to tax increases, going against his main campaign pledge. The President signed the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990 on November 5, 1990 securing a budget for the fiscal year.
BILL CLINTON
The 1995-1996 shutdowns were the longest amid the most heated battle over the budget between Congress and the President. President Clinton chose to veto several appropriation bills in the 1996 budget, at issue was funding amounts for social programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, public health, education, and the environment, all programs Clinton pledged to maintain to the public, however, the Republicans wanted Clinton to submit a seven year plan for a balanced budget. The Republican Congress could have voted on a continuance to keep the government operating on the previous fiscal years spending limits. However, the Republican controlled Congress looked to shut down the government hoping the public would blame the Democratic President, leading to a Republican victory in the next year’s Presidential election.

Many believed Gingrich was motivated by revenge as opposed to policy when allowed the shutdown to occur, Senator Tom Delay in his memoir No Retreat, No Surrender wrote, “He told a room full of reporters that he forced the shutdown because Clinton had rudely made him and Bob Dole sit at the back of Air Force One… (After Yizhak Rabin’s funeral, where Clinton refused to discuss the budget as well on the flight) Newt had been careless to say such a thing, and now the whole moral tone of the shutdown had been lost. What had been a noble battle for fiscal sanity began to look like the tirade of a spoiled child. The revolution, I can tell you, was never the same.” Throughout the shutdown Clinton suffered in the polls, but in the end the backlash was against the Republicans instead, whose popularity waned after the shutdowns, and in the 1996 election they actually lost 5 seats in the Congress to Democrats.

Nov. 13, 1995: The first shutdown commenced at midnight on November 13, 2005, after a last minute attempt to avert the shut down; Clinton, Gingrich, House Majority Leader Dick Armey, and Senator Bob Dole met, but failed to reach a compromise. Clinton described the negotiations in his memoirs, My Life; “Armey replied gruffly that if I didn’t give in to them, they would shut the government down and my presidency would be over. I shot back, saying I would never allow their budget to become law, “even if I drop to 5 percent in the polls. If you want your budget, you’ll have to get someone else to sit in this chair!” Not surprisingly, we didn’t make a deal.” At the midnight, a partial shutdown led to 800,000 “nonessential employees” being sent home or told not to come into to work, with only emergency government services remained open. This represented 42 percent of the civil servants employed. The shutdown only ceased with an agreement on a temporary spending bill.
Dec. 16, 1995-Jan. 5, 1996: When the temporary funding measures expired, and no continuance was yet again signed, the government shut down this time for 14 days from December 16, 1995 and finally ending on January 5, 1996; the longest shutdown period in US history. Although Congress enacted resolutions to end the shutdown and another temporary spending bill was signed ending the 21 day partial government shut down, the government did not go back to fully functioning until April. Clinton agreed to submit a seven year balanced budget plan approved by the Congressional Budget Office to ensure the government would keep running after the January 26, 1996 spending extension end date. With the agreement, Clinton declared ‘The era of big government is over.’
In 1990 and in 1995, 1996, the budget battles and their subsequent shutdowns forced compromises, especially on the side of the President more than Congress. In 1990 Bush had to agree to tax increases, while in 1996, Clinton had to agree to a seven year balanced budget plan. Bush going against his campaign pledge lost his 1992 bid for re-election, Clinton however, escaped with a higher approval rating for his handling of the 1996 budget showdown, and was re-elected later that same year, while Republicans heavily shouldered the blame for the shutdowns.

Now within hours of the government being shutdown after one of the longest budget battles in history, one side will blamed more than other for allowing a shutdown. Neither side has been able to compromise, Republicans are aggressively pursuing a week extension, and while President Obama has looked to keep out of the battle as much as possible, a veto to even the emergency week extension measure could shift the blame towards both the Democrats and the President. As time wanes one aspect seems almost certain, 2011 will be added to the list of recent government shutdowns over a budget battle, while only time will tell the long term political ramifications a such a shutdown at a time of economic fragility.

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04-08-2011 05:17 PM  6 years agoPost 11
Dennis (RIP)

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Those of you that fail to see or understand that the current budget problem is EVERYONE'S problem are just closed minded and no amount of actual rational thought will ever sway you. You just refuse to be able to learn anything, you know it all.
If you want to talk about the budget, talk about the budget. Don't throw these other issues into the mix.
The current budgetary mess is about SPENDING !!

The spending of trillions. Not billions. But, trillions. All done by the Dems.

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04-08-2011 05:33 PM  6 years agoPost 12
PsychoZ

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It is always 1 sided isn't it Dennis, because we as citizens know exactly what is going on in the White house. We know what is really going on behind closed doors, the Republicans have done nothing wrong and it is all the democrats fault for where we are today and where we are going. The republicans have done all they can to help with the budget, they have comprimised on everything, it is only the democrats that are standing tall and not taking cuts.

I guess I was wrong, and I thought it was the fault of both sides.

Tea Parties are for little girls with imaginary friends

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04-08-2011 05:34 PM  6 years agoPost 13
SSN Pru

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I absolutely can't stand it when the GOP puts these ideological things at the forefront, espeicially considering the MUCH BIGGER issues that have to be dealt with!!

I guess the GOP is looking to run off any independents, like me, that were beginnging to side with them. One step forward, two back...

It's still the same old GOP.

Same goes for the demo-rats.

As much as the GOP fights against abortion and crap like it, the demo-rats fight for it!

They all suck!!!

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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04-08-2011 05:48 PM  6 years agoPost 14
Dennis (RIP)

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It is always 1 sided isn't it Dennis, because we as citizens know exactly what is going on in the White house.
It can be if you choose a side.

Obviously, neither side is perfect.

But, ultimately, at voting time, you must choose a side. I have done so well before that.

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04-08-2011 07:25 PM  6 years agoPost 15
PsychoZ

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Just read this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theti...shutdown-battle

Thanks to the House GOP's decision to add a policy "rider" defunding women's health services provider Planned Parenthood to the budget and Democrats' pushback, abortion has taken center stage in this week's government shutdown battle.

Democrats say a rider to "defund" Planned Parenthood--a national health care provider that also offers abortion services--is a prominent reason why Democrats and Republicans have failed to reach an agreement on how to fund the government past Friday's midnight deadline.

"Now the tea party--among others, but they're the biggest push--is trying to move its extreme social agenda, issues that have nothing to do with funding the government," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said Friday on the Senate floor. "They're willing, it appears--clearly, to throw women under the bus even if it means they'll shut down the government. Because that's where we are. That's the one issue that was remaining last night."

Federal law prohibits federal funds from being used to pay for abortions, so Planned Parenthood's abortion services are paid for by private funding. But Republicans, including House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), have made defunding the organization a priority in the budget battle, seeing it as an opportune time to push their social issue agenda.

Abortion is seen as a political third rail--it's an issue so charged, that any politician who ventures to touch it will be harmed. The exception is social conservatives, whose base largely supports abortion restrictions. The current shutdown battle provides a perfect opportunity for social conservatives--with Congress under pressure to agree on a budget before the midnight deadline, all lawmakers are now being forced to address the Planned Parenthood rider, whether or not it's politically safe.

Social conservatives in Washington, and "pro-life" advocates specifically, have long invoked abortion as a political stalling tactic. In late 2009, Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) offered an amendment to the president's health care bill to bar federal funds from being used for health insurance that covers elective abortions. The measure, known as the Stupak Amendment, threatened to derail the entire bill.

Ultimately, the Stupak language was dropped and the president's health care law passed, with Stupak's support.

Democrats in Congress have said they will not bend on the proposed rider, especially since federal law already dictates that federal funds cannot be used for abortions.

The GOP-controlled House already voted this year to defund Planned Parenthood, but enough Senate Democrats vowed to oppose that legislation that it had no hope of success in the Democratic-controlled upper chamber.

In the current fight, Democrats have cast the Planned Parenthood rider as a war on women's health. Reid noted Friday on the Senate floor that Planned Parenthood provides cancer screenings, as well as a range of health services such as cervical cancer tests, breast exams and birth control.

"The Republicans want to shut down our nation's government because they want to make it harder for women to get the health services they need," Reid said. Reid claimed Friday morning that Democrats and Republicans have reached an agreement on "cuts and savings," saying riders were the only sticking points remaining.

Both sides are preemptively casting blame for a shutdown.

Boehner said in a brief press conference Friday that Democrats have not agreed to cut spending the degree that would satisfy the GOP. Washington is "not serious about dealing with its spending addiction," Boehner said.

Tea Parties are for little girls with imaginary friends

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04-08-2011 07:29 PM  6 years agoPost 16
Dennis (RIP)

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04-08-2011 07:36 PM  6 years agoPost 17
PsychoZ

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I'll call my buddy that is serving right now to find out if he gets a pay check or not. I am guessing this is just a knee jerk reaction to what is going on. I know that when the State goes past the budget deadline checks do not come to a screaching haul, the first thing to not get paid is the suppliers, the employees still get paid. I bet the service men and women continue to get paid.

Tea Parties are for little girls with imaginary friends

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04-08-2011 07:40 PM  6 years agoPost 18
PsychoZ

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I just talked to him, when his next pay period comes at the end of the month he will let me know whether or not he gets paid. He gets paid monthly.

Tea Parties are for little girls with imaginary friends

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04-08-2011 07:41 PM  6 years agoPost 19
Dennis (RIP)

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I'll call my buddy that is serving right now to find out if he gets a pay check or not. I am guessing this is just a knee jerk reaction to what is going on.
Its not a knee jerk reaction.

Obama threatened to veto a bill to allow the military to be paid right up until September leaving the military pay issue out of the budget arguments. That bill was presented to the pres in negotiations last night.

Get that ??? In other words;

The President will not allow soldiers to be paid if he don't get his way in the budget arguments.

They raise hell about loosing funding for killing babies, but not allow our troops to be paid ????

Don't call your pal in the military yet. This is not over.

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04-08-2011 08:58 PM  6 years agoPost 20
dilberteinstein

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texas - USA

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SSN Pru

I absolutely can't stand it when the GOP puts these ideological things at the forefront, espeicially considering the MUCH BIGGER issues that have to be dealt with!!
Sorry, I can't agree with you about the GOP being ideological about Planned Parenthood funding, abortion funding for DC, abortion funding for foreign countries, ObamaCare funding, and EPA being used to further the greenie's agenda.

I don't view this as ideological...I view this as slowing the Democrats' hands in my pocket. The government's stoppage of these funds don't forbid abortions...they just just don't abort funds out of my wallet to pay for it.

I don't like paying for the EPA to further the greenie's agenda either. If wind power and solar power are so great, they will pay for themselves. We don't need to falsely regulate our existing power sources into bankruptcy (as Obama has said he will do to the coal industry).

90% of life is "showing up"

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