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HelicopterMain Discussion › Enough to make a grown man cry, or anyone else for that matter.
04-07-2011 08:05 PM  6 years agoPost 1
5high

rrNovice

NW Montana

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So...finished the 700e 3g FBL. Brand new packs, EC5, ICE80HV, 610's and 650 Servos, CCPro, Spektrum 9000 with two sats, meticulous build with braided wires, KDE main gears, F3C tail control rod, 713 Edge blades... you get the idea.

Set-up with level and appeared to be perfect...and it was, the tail held great, lifted off to 4 feet and immediately went into this uncontrolable porpoise motion.

It was everything I could do to keep it somewhat where I wanted but could tell there was no way I was going to land this thing. Fought it for what seemed like minutes, actually about 15 seconds and nosed in HARD,

Don't know for sure but so far, both frames, one battery pack, blades, canopy, nose piece, landing gear and I'm sure there will be more.

On the plus side, the tail is pristine and all the electronics (reciever and servos at least) seem to be OK.

So thats my sad story as I'm sure there have been many here. I'm back to the 500 and the 600 for now and NO MORE FBL for me. Anyone want a 3g unit complete with software package for a 700?

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04-07-2011 08:38 PM  6 years agoPost 2
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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Where were you gains?
Any changes to defaults with the programmer?
How much cyclic pitch set up in DIR mode?

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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04-07-2011 08:59 PM  6 years agoPost 3
Greybird

rrVeteran

Davie, Florida

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Wow.. That sucks.. Is that your first FBL?

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04-07-2011 09:11 PM  6 years agoPost 4
ncarbon

rrApprentice

Kalispell Montana

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Oh great

Ric....this sucks, and I have a 500 3G coming.... Sorry for your loss.
Flybar time?

Ned

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04-07-2011 09:19 PM  6 years agoPost 5
Rogman88

rrElite Veteran

West Monroe, LA

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Were you able to hit hold prior to impact? I fly with my middle finger on hold. The first sign of the heli doing something I'm not telling it to do, I hit hold. Sometimes prematurely. Damage is much less in an auto than under power.

Sorry for your loss

High Voltage just works better

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04-07-2011 09:27 PM  6 years agoPost 6
5high

rrNovice

NW Montana

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Yes, this is my first FBL and everything was set to default. I'm using a 9503 and follwed everything to a T as far as I can tell.

My plan was to follow Kammemers setup but new to stay with the default to start.

I'm not blaming anyone but myself as I'm sure it was I who did something wrong, however building and flying a flybar unit I'm very comfortable with. I don't have anyone to really ask questions of and spent a great deal of time researching here and on other sites.

I had noticed in the setup test the fore and aft response seemed slow and minimal with side to side fairly quick and if left in the tilted postition, the swash returned to level orientation fairly quickly. In hindsight, this is probable not correct.

At the moment, I'll lick my wounds and carry on, but I won't try the FBL again without help.

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04-07-2011 09:58 PM  6 years agoPost 7
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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With no tuning with the programmer, gain dials on 12:00 would give you some wobble. Depending on vibration levels, it could have gotten out of hand.

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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04-07-2011 10:04 PM  6 years agoPost 8
funkindatrunk

rrApprentice

Millersville TN USA

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I just got my first 3 g and put it on a protos 500 and it holds great. My gains are a hair past 12. The first flight was scary. Maybe you just have a bad unit. Its weird it flew fine at first then went crazy.

I have learned if you move the sticks the right way you wont crash.

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04-07-2011 10:41 PM  6 years agoPost 9
5high

rrNovice

NW Montana

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To say I was nervous would be an understatement. If you read the forums you read all sorts of horror stories and learn to pick and chose those to heed. I still think the problem lies in the programing only because the tail held through out the ordeal and it never tried to tip over.

Its a new kit and I did take the sending unit apart to make sure the mode had been done. It didn't appear to have any vibrations, but quite frankly I was pretty busy. On spool up it looked great and "wanted" to take off.

I hadn't given it any inputs prior to lift off and while I'm not positive, (I'll have to ask those that were watching) I don't rememeber giving it any inputs until the ride began.

Living where I do, I would describe it more like "bucking" than wobbling. As it came back, give forward control and visa versa and actually thought if I can "catch-up" I was going to get it under control.

At that point it was getting further away and not wanting to risk losing a 90 size to its own device. Tried to get it on the ground. I missed a grassy area by less than two feet and nosed in to the asphalt with a rather spectacular end.

Thanks to all and I'm going to get back up and fly!

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04-08-2011 12:05 AM  6 years agoPost 10
BlakeMcBrayer

rrElite Veteran

Georgetown, Ky

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Let me start by saying that I am an Align fan to some degree. I have three of their helis. A 550E, 600N and 700N all of which are FBL. I also have other brands that are FBL as well. But I am NOT a fan of their 3G flybarless systems. I have set up and flown several 3G units and I'd have to say that I DO NOT trust them!. Consider a Mini V-Bar or full size. Trust me, you will never look back.

I prefer the V-Bar FBL, but I have been somewhat pleased with the MicroBeast unit as well. The MB is easier to make changes to setting since a PC is not needed, but the ability to make a V-Bar fly exactly as you want it makes it a lot better IMHO. Bank switching (flight modes) is a GREAT thing with the V-Bar units as well. I have three different banks setup on each of my helis. One is as tame as a F3C ship, one is everyday flying and the last is full on freaking wilder than you want. I can fly what my mood of the moment ask for.

Best of all, I feel I can TRUST those units. With 3G, I'm always waiting for something to go wrong. Be it my fault or not.

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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04-08-2011 02:26 AM  6 years agoPost 11
Rotowerkz

rrApprentice

Windham, NH

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My first 3G flight with my 600 ended up almost the same way. However, I had the elevator cyclic swash mix reversed. Broke my stock set of Align 600 CFs on this heli because of this.

Since that time, I've been tweaking the 3G through the USB interface. It's almost dialed in. It flies pretty good now. Compared to a flybarred heli, it flies like it's on rails. I got rid of the wag through the rudder lock gain adjustment, and the elevator/aileron lock gains were dialed down as well. I'm still playing with collective compensation because I get the porpoising at FFF.

For me, it's been fun, because I get my hands dirty with the individual settings. I'm sorry to hear about your crash, but I would like to point out that a lot of people are enjoying FBL because of the 3G. It's not for everyone, obviously.

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04-08-2011 02:57 AM  6 years agoPost 12
givverawhirl

rrNovice

LA USA

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^^^+1
setting up ANY FBL system the wrong way could have terrible results.
IMO the 3g may be on the lower end of the spectrum,but many people are having positive results for the nominal cost.
hopefully Align will have all the bugs worked out with the 3gx.

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04-08-2011 04:22 AM  6 years agoPost 13
funkindatrunk

rrApprentice

Millersville TN USA

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Only reason im using the 3g on my heli is because it was cheap. Got it on this site for 120 with the usb. It was the only way I could ever try fbl at the moment and mine seems to work great. Only thing I hate about fbl systems is the take off. Whats so much better about the v bat then the 3g? does the heli just feel better? I would like to try other systems but I am a broke azz right now.

I have learned if you move the sticks the right way you wont crash.

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04-08-2011 05:12 AM  6 years agoPost 14
elmobad

rrApprentice

chicago IL

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Oh-No here we go agin.....

To stop any and all....what is better.....comments. Just know this (my 2cents) V-bar, Beast, FUT750, string and stick all (in no order) are better then the 3G.

5high, I know it sucks but dont give up on FBL it is a lot of fun.

GOT FBL?

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04-08-2011 05:29 AM  6 years agoPost 15
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Not a fanboy comment but 100% truth, Vbar will NOT allow you to do it wrong, you have VISUALS to look at to confirm 100% that your sensor and directions are in fact proper, if you follow the steps you can NOT fail even if you are brand new to FBL. Software and a PC can in such cases of this be a VERY GOOD thing!

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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04-08-2011 06:29 AM  6 years agoPost 16
Ladymagic

rrKey Veteran

South Korea

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I'll admit, I am running a 3G on my 550 right now and it's also my first FBL system. I want to retro fit my 700 with a FBL unit, but I don't feel 100% about the 3G.

So far, my 3G has performed "good" There are some things I don't like about it and that mainly has to do with it's performance during really dymamic 3D. It does do some quirky stuff during inverted piro power outs and the piro rate seems a little bit inconsistant, but for the most part it's been okay. The inconsistant piro rate did cause me to crash when I tried to do a quick snap piro flip at 2ft becuase it didn't come out where I expected it to. But, that's proabably some what my fault too.

Sorry you pinged what sounded like a nicely built, well setup heli, but don't give up on FBL or the 3G. It may not be the best unit out there, but it will get the job done. You just have to take extra care when you are setting it up. Check and double check everything and it usually will produce good results. Based on what you've said, it sounds like you simply missed a step, or you didn't give it time to fully initialize before you started moving it around. I think after you make sure you 3G unit isn't damaged and you run through the setup again, you should be fine. Just make sure you have the proper control horn distances installed, gyro directions are correct, and all your settings are right. It should be fine from that point.

In the end, it's not a perfect unit, but the 3G isn't as bad as some make it out to be. Just be careful, it's easy to jump on the "blame Align for everything" bandwagon, but its best to go with your own experiences with Align before doing so. Personally, I've had very good luck with Align as long is you take the time to setup their products correctly. Good luck and again, sorry for the crash

Mellisa

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04-08-2011 08:44 AM  6 years agoPost 17
Heliguychris

rrKey Veteran

Perth, West Australia

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The 3g`s arnt nearly as bad as some folks would have you beleive, even for a ordinary pilot, like myself, they fly pretty darn good. Infact, i would say my flying has improved using them, over a FB setup. Yes i have lots of others to play with and compare them too.

When folks come here with a problem, and the first thing they hear is, "oh its cause 3g is crapola" i LMAO. No clue. Could they be better, yes. Are they the root of all evil hehehehehee. I doubt it.

If folks would like help with their 3g settings, i would be happy to help. This username on youtube should give you an idea of my credentials.

As for too high gains causeing the ossilation, as described by the OP, this would be incorrect.

You can only tell your gains are too high, say for AIL, when you do a roll, the roll will look "cracky", like a shaky stick roll.

Back into my box

Licensed (CASA) UAV operator certificate holder 1-YFOF5-01 www.helicamaerial.com.au

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04-08-2011 12:57 PM  6 years agoPost 18
gmcullan

rrKey Veteran

Southbridge, MA

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I just went through this same thing when I maidened the first FBL flight on my 450 Pro. Stupid me, I had the elevator gyro response reversed! I managed to get it on the ground with out damage, redid the setup (reversing the elevator gyro response), and now my Pro is totally locked in. I'm loving it, and now understand the Pro designation for this airframe versus the earlier versions. I also have a SA on the 3G. I'm setting up my SE V1 on a BeastX this weekend. Not because I'm unhappy with the 3G, but that I just want to try something "different"

Gerry Cullan,
Gaui 200, 255; T-Rex 250, 450 SE & SA, Mini-Titan, Blade 450

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04-08-2011 02:32 PM  6 years agoPost 19
5high

rrNovice

NW Montana

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For me at least, the lesson learned here is to not use a 700. I'm not going to give up on FBL, just move it to something smaller and cheaper to experiment on. 450 maybe?

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04-08-2011 04:02 PM  6 years agoPost 20
ncarbon

rrApprentice

Kalispell Montana

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Or maybe my 500

Well Ric when my 500 shows up with the 3G....perhaps we can collaborate and get things flying well. Now I am just waiting!

Ned

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